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Additional Battery v Wind Turbine v Ripple

bontwoody · 2024-07-24T18:52:26Z

Ive been pondering the wisdom of buying a small roof mounted wind turbine to supplement my electricity production during the winter and comparing that against the wisdom of buying another 5 kWh module for my Huawei Lunar battery. Similar sort of price. I then contemplated buying shares in a Ripple wind farm and the outcome surprised me. Making a calculation of my average wind speed (4-5 m/s) my predicted output from the wind turbine was about 500 kWh per year. What that is actually worth to me is hard to work out but i settled for 15p/kWh (the octopus export rate) I reasoned that I would only get a benefit from an extra battery for about 100 days in a year. Assuming that I filled it once at cheap rate and that saved me buying at peak rate, that might be worth 24p-7p=17p/kWh Finally I bought an equivalent amout of shares in Ripple which provided 2400 kWh and saved £100 off my bill in the first year. The one year savings between all three are similar but the big difference for me was longevity as shown in the table below: Unless Ive misjudged something here, the winner looks clear. What do you guys and gals think? NB there is also the point that the roof mounted wind turbine would need planning as I have a heat pump.

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bontwoody

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Topic starter 18/08/2024 12:11 pm

@gary

I think thats the difference then retail price v negotiated price. The most optimistic caluculation for my case is below, nothing like the return you are expecting @marvinator80.

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Marvinator80

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18/08/2024 12:36 pm

@bontwoody

this is what is says for mine. I would still take it all day long and twice on Sundays.

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bontwoody

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Topic starter 18/08/2024 12:49 pm

@marvinator80 I think that equates to about 4.1% compound taking into account the loss of capital so its definitely a good investment if it makes that return.

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Marvinator80

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18/08/2024 2:24 pm

Posted by: @bontwoody

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@marvinator80 I think that equates to about 4.1% compound taking into account the loss of capital so its definitely a good investment if it makes that return.

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thank you.

the Share Offer Document states the estimated return rate at 6.3%.

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Old_Scientist

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18/08/2024 2:52 pm

Posted by: @marvinator80

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@johnmo

Retail Value Savings:

The electricity generated by your share of the wind farm is credited directly against your electricity bill at the retail rate. This means that if you invest in enough energy to cover 4500 kWh per year, the savings on your bill would reflect the cost of 4500 kWh at the rate you would otherwise be paying to your energy supplier (e.g., 19p per kWh).

2. How It Works:

Ripple Energy partners with specific energy suppliers who manage these credits. When the wind farm generates electricity, the equivalent amount is deducted from your bill as if you had consumed it from the grid. You effectively receive the full retail value of the energy you’ve invested in.

3. No Wholesale Rates:

Since the credit is applied based on the retail value, there’s no impact from the wholesale market prices. You are benefiting directly from the electricity offset, meaning your savings are calculated at the same rate that you would otherwise pay on your electricity bill.

So what I understand this to mean is that if I currently pay 19p per unit to Octopus for 7000kWH then once the wind farm is operational, as a Ripple investor/shareholder I will no longer have to pay this. Through their partnership with Octopus, this 7000kWH will be deducted from my Octopus bill over the course of a year.

Where did you get this? I do not believe this is correct, or at least it wasn't last time I looked into Ripple.

The amount you receive is based on your share of the price Ripple are able to sell the electricity produced, less their operating costs. This is a LOT less than the full retail value you are paying your supplier, unless they have changed their operating model.

From their FAQ:

Do I get free electricity?

No, the electricity from your wind farm or solar park isn't free but it should be a lot cheaper. You need to pay operating costs, as well as grid charges, levies, taxes and supply costs associated with your tariff. Costs and savings will vary by project. Details of the estimated cost and savings will be set out in the share offer document.

Further, this better reflects my understanding of how Ripple works:

https://rippleenergy.com/savings-and-cost

How do your savings work?

Every month, you will get credit applied to your electricity bill. The credit represents how much your share of the project generated, multiplied by the savings rate.

Savings rate = agreed price of power minus the operating cost of the project.

We work with energy suppliers to set a price for the power generated by your project annually. This price reflects the value of power on the wholesale market.

When the wholesale price of electricity is high, we agree a higher price with the suppliers and therefore, members get better savings their electricity bill.

A good example of this is for our first wind farm, Graig Fatha in Wales. In the first year of generation from March 2022, the savings rate was 9.5p/kWh (agreed price of power 11.5p/kWh - operating cost of wind farm 2p/kWh). The average member received savings on their electricity bill of around £300. In year 2, from March 2023, when wholesale electricity prices were very high, the savings rate also increased, and was set to 27p/kWh. This meant the average member received savings of around £950²² on their electricity bills, preventing them from seeing the huge rises in their electricity bills that non-members have seen. From March 2024, now that wholesale electricity prices are decreasing again, the savings rate has been set much lower at 6.55p/kWh.

This post was modified 1 year ago by Old_Scientist

Samsung 12kW gen6 ASHP with 50L volumiser and all new large radiators. 7.2kWp solar (south facing), Tesla PW3 (13.5kW)
Solar generation completely offsets ASHP usage annually. We no longer burn ~1600L of kerosene annually.

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Old_Scientist

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18/08/2024 3:23 pm

Posted by: @marvinator80

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Just a note to say thanks for this thread. We are going ahead with Ripple today.

2,892 Watts, 7,000 kWh of electricity per year.

Feels like a really good long term investment in our energy which will give us energy and price security. If the price of energy drops, we won't save as much but at current rates my numbers tell me we will save roughly £1330 per year on an investment of £4965. And the term on this wind farm is 30 years rather than 25.

The Ripple calculator says annual savings of £385 for 2,892 Watts, 7,000 kWh of electricity per year (at a cost of £4961), which works out at 5.5p per kWh, not the 19p you are thinking. I think you have fundamentally misunderstood the offer.

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Abernyte

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20/03/2025 4:01 pm

I see that Ripple have dropped into administration today. That is not good.

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Mars

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20/03/2025 4:06 pm

@abernyte I missed that. That is bad news.

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Judith

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20/03/2025 4:57 pm

That is a real shame! Several people have put money with them.

2kW + Growatt & 4kW +Sunnyboy PV on south-facing roof Solar thermal. 9.5kWh Givenergy battery with AC3. MVHR. Vaillant 7kW ASHP (very pleased with it) open system operating on WC

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Toodles

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20/03/2025 5:34 pm

@judith We have for a start, ‘never invest more than you can afford to lose’ they say. I understand that our cooperatives are independent of the management and will continue to develop. I imagine that a further delay in getting Derril Water Solar Park up and running isn’t out of the question yet. Regrets, Toodles.

Toodles, heats his home with cold draughts and cooks food with magnets.

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Abernyte

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20/03/2025 7:05 pm

The biggest problem for the Coops is that Ripple funded them and the Administrators might look to recover that money. If not, great but they will still need to find someone to take on running them. That might be tricky.

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Mars

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