I've finally managed to download the Joule Samsung installation manual which details exactly how @Craig1980 's system is plumbed and wired. I've attached it for the benefit of the tape*
I don't think this is exactly the correct manual for Craig's system, it doesn't match with the photo's that he posted.
The manual I have been looking at throughout much of the afternoon would appear to be the correct one, though I am still trying to figure out exactly how it is piped underneath the cover on which the controller is mounted. At first I thought that there may be a buffer incorporated within the cylinder, but now I don't think that is the case. I also now suspect that one water pump is on the return to the ASHP, and the second water pump is on the flow from the ASHP, which seems a little strange. So it would mean one pump pushing and the other pump pulling.
To be 100% certain would entail removing the front cover for a peak underneath.
and that PWM pump can be connected to the control PCB inside the MIM
OK... so the point being made in the manual is that an 'ordinary' domestic central heating pump gets operated with a PWM signal, provided that it is connected into the Control PCB, rather than just being connected to 240v mains.
I have this arrangement for the Grundfos pump on my solar thermal array. For it to operate correctly on a pump with an inbuilt 3-speed selector (eg Grundfos UPS15-20), that selector must be left in the MAX speed position.
Any pump with two connectors can be wired up for PWM control - These communication signals are standardised in the VDMA Einheitsblatt 24244 "Wet runner circulating pumps - Specification of PWM control signals".
Off grid on the isle of purbeck
2.4kW solar, 15kWh Seplos Mason, Outback power systems 3kW inverter/charger, solid fuel heating with air/air for shoulder months, 10 acres of heathland/woods.
My wife’s house: 1946 3 bed end of terrace in Somerset, ASHP with rads + UFH, triple glazed, retrofit IWI in troublesome rooms, small rear extension.
and that PWM pump can be connected to the control PCB inside the MIM
OK... so the point being made in the manual is that an 'ordinary' domestic central heating pump gets operated with a PWM signal, provided that it is connected into the Control PCB, rather than just being connected to 240v mains.
I have this arrangement for the Grundfos pump on my solar thermal array. For it to operate correctly on a pump with an inbuilt 3-speed selector (eg Grundfos UPS15-20), that selector must be left in the MAX speed position.
A PWM controllable pump has two sockets and two cables. One cable provides the 240v power supply, the second cable supplies the PWM control signal.
Most manuals cover a full range of pump models with different capabilities, so one has to be careful that the information being viewed actually applies to your particular model.
@hughf that's interesting, thanks. Now, the controller thermostat reads higher than the room stats as it's in the airing cupboard with the uvc. Would that affect anything if I was to set it up as you say?
In an ideal world, you would have the Samsung controller in a central position in the house where it can be easily kept and eye on, and where it can sense the room temperature.
If it were my system, I'd re-use the wires that run to one of your thermostats to reposition the Samsung controller downstairs, and run an extra 2 core cable from the PWM pump drive, to the primary pump.
Hi Hugh,
Do you know if the Samsung controller will still use WC when operating with the indoor temperature located within the controller?
I've finally managed to download the Joule Samsung installation manual which details exactly how @Craig1980 's system is plumbed and wired. I've attached it for the benefit of the tape*
I don't think this is exactly the correct manual for Craig's system, it doesn't match with the photo's that he posted.
The manual I have been looking at throughout much of the afternoon would appear to be the correct one, though I am still trying to figure out exactly how it is piped underneath the cover on which the controller is mounted. At first I thought that there may be a buffer incorporated within the cylinder, but now I don't think that is the case. I also now suspect that one water pump is on the return to the ASHP, and the second water pump is on the flow from the ASHP, which seems a little strange. So it would mean one pump pushing and the other pump pulling.
To be 100% certain would entail removing the front cover for a peak underneath.
From looking at the photos of Craig's system, I'd say it's plumbed up as per the Joule manual - one pump on flow, one on return (push-pull fashion), 3x two port zone valves... Screenshot from the manual attached, along with an annotated photo:
This post was modified 2 years ago 2 times by HughF
Off grid on the isle of purbeck
2.4kW solar, 15kWh Seplos Mason, Outback power systems 3kW inverter/charger, solid fuel heating with air/air for shoulder months, 10 acres of heathland/woods.
My wife’s house: 1946 3 bed end of terrace in Somerset, ASHP with rads + UFH, triple glazed, retrofit IWI in troublesome rooms, small rear extension.
@derek-m I'll pop the cover off later and send a pic.
Thanks Craig,
I have been thinking back to your post of a couple of days ago when you increased both thermostats to 25C, and the cycling went to 8 minutes on and 7 minutes off, rather than 8 on and 20 seconds off. I assume that you then reset the thermostats back to their original settings.
During milder weather, cycling is to be expected, even with a PWM controlled pump, but the system should not switch back on after only 20 seconds.
I would suggest that you try the above test again and see if you get the same result.
If the system does not restart after only 20 seconds, then I would suspect the '20 second' problem may rest with one or more of your wireless thermostats.
Do you know if the Samsung controller will still use WC when operating with the indoor temperature located within the controller?
Mr Samsung-UK aka Graham Hendra would be the man to ask. He launched Samsung into the monobloc ASHP market in the UK many years ago and knows everything about them.
My gut feeling would be 'yes'
Off grid on the isle of purbeck
2.4kW solar, 15kWh Seplos Mason, Outback power systems 3kW inverter/charger, solid fuel heating with air/air for shoulder months, 10 acres of heathland/woods.
My wife’s house: 1946 3 bed end of terrace in Somerset, ASHP with rads + UFH, triple glazed, retrofit IWI in troublesome rooms, small rear extension.
Yes, I've seen all the different diagrams in the manuals, but it doesn't tell one which is correct. Also I don't see the point in having two pumps to do the job that one pump should be able to do.
Do you know if the Samsung controller will still use WC when operating with the indoor temperature located within the controller?
Mr Samsung-UK aka Graham Hendra would be the man to ask. He launched Samsung into the monobloc ASHP market in the UK many years ago and knows everything about them.
My gut feeling would be 'yes'
I'm afraid Graham Hendra lost my vote of confidence, when he admitted that he specified the LWT setting at the upper end of the WC curve to be 37C, just because his wife liked to touch warm radiators.
@derek-m I didn't set them back to 21 straight away and left them for a day. At night it was longer between but by the next day it was back to the same.
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