@cathoderay I noticed in this thread you mentioned as it being a Freedom supply/design. Isn't @grahamh the founder of freedom? I see he is featured on blog posts and videos on here, no involvement in actually helping people? Just money making?

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@filipe "Out of interest how do you get yours to to run with LWT below 35? Mine refuses to go lower."

I have my Midea weather comp set as 45 C LWT at Ambient of -2 C, and 25 C LWT at Ambient of 15 C. Whilst it let me set the 25 C LWT it actually never goes below 30 C LWT. I did email Freedom HP about it some time ago but got a cursory response and I haven't pursued it with them since.

For clarity I set my current weather comp profile in early December (so data before that is not applicable to this topic). After that point you can see the LWT bottoming out at 30 C. All this data comes from the Midea App, so should be treated with caution.

Posted by: @alan-m

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@filipe "Out of interest how do you get yours to to run with LWT below 35? Mine refuses to go lower."

I have my Midea weather comp set as 45 C LWT at Ambient of -2 C, and 25 C LWT at Ambient of 15 C. Whilst it let me set the 25 C LWT it actually never goes below 30 C LWT. I did email Freedom HP about it some time ago but got a cursory response and I haven't pursued it with them since.

 

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For clarity I set my current weather comp profile in early December (so data before that is not applicable to this topic). After that point you can see the LWT bottoming out at 30 C. All this data comes from the Midea App, so should be treated with caution.

@filipe anything to do with the 2 setting for WC low and high temp profiles? pages 106-108 of the manual?

https://www.manualslib.com/download/2088173/Midea-M-Thermal-Mono-Series.html

Posted by: @cathoderay

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I got/get energy out in two ways, initially using midea_ac_lan in HA, and now over modbus using my minimalmodbus python script.

I have the standard ac_lan running. Did you enable another sensor than the set it enables? I have the hardware for the modbus but have yet to set it up.

I do run weather compensation at the moment. There were a few early mornings when it set a higher target temperature than 35c in April. 

Regarding the plate heat exchanger, be advised that there are two options: parallel flow and counter flow. With the latter, the secondary flow out and primary flow in are at the same end of the plate and can therefore reach the same temperature almost, whereas with parallel the secondary flow out is last in contact with the primary return and will be delta T below the primary in or 5C as targeted by the HP. Which make of plate is yours?

I got my monitoring going several weeks ago and it demonstrates that mine is parallel flow and that is indeed how it is plumbed.

Phil

Posted by: @ginny

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@cathoderay I noticed in this thread you mentioned as it being a Freedom supply/design. Isn't @grahamh the founder of freedom? I see he is featured on blog posts and videos on here, no involvement in actually helping people? Just money making?

I believe he may have been a founder, he certainly used to work for them, but I think he is now freelance, though I think he still has shares in Freedom, if I remember correctly.

He has certainly put a tremendous amount of material online, and whilst at times he can blow hot and cold, overall he has contributed generously to our overall understanding of how heat pumps work (and don't work). I am also personally indebted to him because he was the one who pointed out that my Midea 14kW heat pump is in fact a generic 12/14/16kW unit, it just happens to be 14kW because that's how three dip switches are set up. Change them, and I can have a 12 or 16kW unit. I haven't needed to do that yet, but it is reassuring to know that I could, because a 14kW unit struggles to heat my house when it is around zero or below outside. If at some point we get a prolonged sub zero spell, I probably will flip them thar switches. 

Posted by: @ginny

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Isn't @grahamh the founder of freedom? I see he is featured on blog posts and videos on here, no involvement in actually helping people? Just money making?

This Forum isn't anti-commercialisation.

In order to take the best ideas forward it is essential that they create income.

It's a huge jump from there to imply that such companies aren't helping people.
On what basis are you suggesting that is the case?

To implement solutions to Climate Change and the Energy Crisis, we need more companies who develop green technologies and offer them for sale.

Posted by: @filipe

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I have the standard ac_lan running. Did you enable another sensor than the set it enables? I have the hardware for the modbus but have yet to set it up.

You need the wasilukum version of midea_ac_lan to get the total energy data (unless that version has been merged with the original). I think I did have to set up a sensor, I'm not sure. As you well know, I am not a fan of HA, partly because of all this device/entity/sensor complexity. With the wired modbus connection minimalmodbus, it's a doddle.

Yes, I know about parallel and counter flow because my installer sub-contracted plumber initially had the PHE running in parallel flow. It can be, and was, changed to counter flow by flipping the circulating pump through 180 degrees. Before that happened, performance was atrocious.

From the chart you posted, it looks like you have got a bad case of cycling, like me. Perhaps it is 'normal' for Midea and Midea clone units to do this. I am not sure however how that chart shows you have parallel flow, much simpler to examine the pump and the pipework and get a definitive answer. 

@alan-m - interesting to see that your long term plot is similar to mine, eg we can see the cold snap in early Dec 2022 and the milder weather over Christmas and the New Year, and the LWT changing in response. Can you do a similar plot over a shorter period, say a day, to see if your heat pump is cycling? Also interesting to see the LWT is censored to a 30 degree minimum, even though it can be set to go lower. More 'interesting times', no doubt...  

Posted by: @transparent

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It's a huge jump from there to imply that such companies aren't helping people.

We've discussed this before, Freedom told me they operate a business to business model, and don't really deal with end users. It seems @alan-m had a similar experience ("I did email Freedom HP about it some time ago but got a cursory response"). Interestingly, when I first mentioned all this, GH rued the fact that FHP weren't helping people, as it might affect his income ("gutted to hear the tech guys at freedom have been rubbish, im a shareholder at freedom")!

I am not anti-commercialisation, but I am aware commercialisation doesn't always produce the best results. Dieselgate is a classic example, big pharma another. How do we know we aren't sitting on top of compressorgate? My personal way of dealing with this is healthy scepticism: most commercial concerns probably have good guys and bad guys, and there is always an internal battle going on, how can I know the bad guys aren't winning?

Note GH's comment above: he's worried about the poor service not for the customer, but for how it will hit his pocket. I suppose you could say it all boils down to Adam Smith:

“It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest. We address ourselves not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities, but of their advantages”.

In which case, I had better start telling Freedom how wonderful they are!    

@fazel Thank you. I have done that. I could try setting below 35c to see if it then allows manual setting below 35c.

Phil

More generally, and this is comment, not negative criticism, I am not sure a forum can have a definitive view. A forum is primarily a place for debate, which implies more than one view, and for the asking of questions and provision, whenever possible, of answers. Furthermore, it is made up of individuals who contribute voluntarily which raises the possibility of bias (a vocal minority drowning out the views of a silent majority), though it is of course possible that some general consensuses might exist within a forum, for example, it is probably reasonable to assume that the consensus on this forum is that renewable energy is a good thing. But we should not forget that we are a self-selected bunch, and that there may well be other sizeable groups who hold very different views. Why, only yesterday, our very own @derek-m was tilting at windmills! Perhaps we have a heretic in our midst! (@derek-m, for the avoidance of doubt, I am sure you are not a heretic, just a pragmatist pointing out we can't control the wind).    

Posted by: @cathoderay

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From the chart you posted, it looks like you have got a bad case of cycling, like me. Perhaps it is 'normal' for Midea and Midea clone 

There is very little load to begin with. I then turned on another zone and it ran longer before cutting out. As John Cantor explains in his video on cycling there is nothing wrong with this as long as the system under load can run continuously, which mine does when it is cold. 

I need to get my installer to deal with the solution to the big difference between LWT and temperature to the radiator circuit. Reversing the pump is certainly a quick test. 

I can’t complain about the the electric consumption of the HP at 2992kWh for DHW and CH for almost 12 months. I expect to get more for my money in the next 12 months with better efficiency of the HP and Solar plus Batteries contributing more (late January installation this year). 

I don’t share your aversion to HA. I have avoided programming. 

Phil

Posted by: @filipe

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Posted by: @batalto

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Can confirm, they (Freedom) said I could take out the LLH with no impact as long as it was done by someone they work with. 

No negative impacts at all from what I've seen

Out of interest how do you get yours to to run with LWT below 35? Mine refuses to go lower.

Phil

I would suggest that you check that your WC curve is set to position 9 and not one of the fixed curves. If the WC curve is in position 9 then check the actual settings.