And the longer version…

Toodles.

For a long time now I've been saying that energy supply is only a side-hustle for Octopus. The mainstay of the business is Kraken - a classic case of platform capitalism which has already earned Octopus (and its major hedge fund backers) a $2billion valuation and a juicy Asian break out. 

This little clip very clearly shows how the Cosy heat pump is taking it all quite a few steps further - sell a heat pump, plug the tariff, monitor its use and scoop up all that juicy data. All while ticking the 'nice boy' boxes and selling a brand. They make Palantir look like comic book villain, light-weights. 

Never mind SCOP, that's why I opted for the Daikin. They ain't trackin' me. 🫢😁

Posted by: @lucia

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For a long time now I've been saying that energy supply is only a side-hustle for Octopus. The mainstay of the business is Kraken - a classic case of platform capitalism which has already earned Octopus (and its major hedge fund backers) a $2billion valuation and a juicy Asian break out. 

This little clip very clearly shows how the Cosy heat pump is taking it all quite a few steps further - sell a heat pump, plug the tariff, monitor its use and scoop up all that juicy data. All while ticking the 'nice boy' boxes and selling a brand. They make Palantir look like comic book villain, light-weights. 

Never mind SCOP, that's why I opted for the Daikin. They ain't trackin' me. 🫢😁

 

 

If the product is free (or cheap) YOU are the product.  This is worth remembering.

Posted by: @lucia

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For a long time now I've been saying that energy supply is only a side-hustle for Octopus. The mainstay of the business is Kraken - a classic case of platform capitalism which has already earned Octopus (and its major hedge fund backers) a $2billion valuation and a juicy Asian break out. 

This little clip very clearly shows how the Cosy heat pump is taking it all quite a few steps further - sell a heat pump, plug the tariff, monitor its use and scoop up all that juicy data. All while ticking the 'nice boy' boxes and selling a brand. They make Palantir look like comic book villain, light-weights. 

Never mind SCOP, that's why I opted for the Daikin. They ain't trackin' me. 🫢😁 

This post stopped me for a while and has had me thinking ever since.

I don't mind admitting I have a healthy scepticism for corporate antics, and a heavy dislike of companies trying to market themselves as "caring". The advertisements of banks trying to imply their approval of a loan is only a hop, skip and a jump away from pure altruism for a family in need gets my hackles up. And that's even before the many well-known corporate scandals (think Nestle and baby formula milk or the diesel emissions scandal implicating Volkswagen and others). In short, I don't trust corporate ethics.

That does, however, pose a problem. Whilst I have seen plenty of evidence to back up my mistrust, I still have to retain the idea of "innocent until proven guilty" or I'm leaving no room for someone to do the right thing.

Octopus, therefore, present me with quite a conundrum. To date, I have not heard a whiff of scandal about them. On the contrary, I have heard that when Octopus acquired Bulb, it ended up paying back all its debts to the UK government on time. I have heard innumerable accounts of Octopus helping struggling customers. I have heard that when, in 2022, energy companies were hauled over the coals for their forcible installing of prepayment meters, the top offenders were British Gas, Scottish Power, OVO and EON responsible for 25,000, 24,320, 16,867 and 10,220 installs respectively, whereas Octopus installed just 32. In other words, so far all I can see is Octopus walking the walk. Being a member of Which, I also follow quite carefully their findings about the energy sector and Octopus' part in it. All I've found so far is that they appear to have consistently acted in an ethically reasonable manner and given both good and innovative customer service - not perfect for every individual but as close as I've ever seen put into practice.

Octopus Energy's holding company is, of course, an asset management company so I'm not surprised in the slightest that there's plenty of serious money being thrown around and significant rewards being earned. However, whilst making big profits will always get my suspicions going as to how it's being achieved I can't honestly say I believe the act of making profits is in itself wrong and to date I haven't found any hint that Octopus' earnings have been the result of anything more than good business.

At the moment, therefore, the only conclusion I can logically draw is that Octopus is what it appears to be; a company being run according to a set of ethical principles that can stand up to public scrutiny. Does that mean I've decided they are an honest company? No, that still sticks in my throat; it's a bit like declaring someone to be an honest politician. However, the longer they continue as they are, the closer I'll get to being convinced and the more disappointed I'll be if they do end up disgracing themselves. In the meantime I'm going to avoid conspiracy theories whilst nonetheless watching their activities with a heavy dose of scepticism.

@majordennisbloodnok Well said Major, I agree with every word and wish I had written it! My experiences with Octopus and all reports I have come across and others I have spoken to reflect this same feeling. I sometimes feel that our politicians need a good talking to on a weekly basis by Greg! Regards, Toodles.

@Majordennisbloodnok

However, the longer they continue as they are, the closer I'll get to being convinced and the more disappointed I'll be if they do end up disgracing themselves. In the meantime I'm going to avoid conspiracy theories whilst nonetheless watching their activities with a heavy dose of scepticism.

Er, it seems you are reading my comment (which is based on facts) through your own coloured lens. I don't fan girl 🐙 but I have not suggested anything nefarious either.  However, if you think data isn't probably one of the biggest, and growing exponentially, problems we face, I have an oil well to sell you. (credit cards accepted 🫢😂).

...And a couple of academic reading lists on a) data and b) on financialisation.

These two subjects have been researched and written about (and peer-reviewed) repeatedly. It's my job to read them amongst other things. 

The tentacled ones themselves have publicly stated they make their big money from Kraken which they have sold all over the world - there's a name for this - 'platform capitalism' - think Uber etc.,. Energy supply really is a side hustle for them.  

Even as I write, there are lobbies pushing for much more access to smart meter data, for example. To not consider the politics of data in terms of renewable energy, corporate behaviour and governance is just plain green - of the wrong sort - unfortunately. 🤑

I take issue with words like 'conspiracy theory' there's absolutely none of that in my post... I made my post light-hearted but actually I know my stuff - I've worked on multiple sides of the fence including corporate analytics. I happen to think 🐙 way of operating is incredibly clever - including their branding - that's neither endorsement nor indictment. 

They just did a grand job fitting my heat pump. 

@lucia, my apologies. In fact, the "conspiracy theories" comment was never intended to be a sideways swipe at anyone, least of all you. When people start talking about brands or corporate behaviour, I tend to see opinions polarising around the two extremes (imagining even greater evil than has been evidenced or being unwilling to admit any wrongdoing at all), and my comment was attempting to illustrate my intention to remain as considered and balanced as possible. Rereading my post, I can clearly see how you could and did misconstrue my meaning and that's obviously down to lack of clarity on my part.

Without diluting that part at all, I would in more general terms disagree. I'm not reading things into your comment per se as much as stating that your post prompted me to actively address something I've been mulling over for a while. In essence, I don't like big businesses, I do like how Octopus treat me but I recognise Octopus is a big business. That creates a conflict in my mind that I haven't resolved yet, and I posted about it.

As for data, my job requires me to be well aware of the issues you mention as yours does for you. However, not all data is equal and my big issue personally is with data about me, not about my smart meter. I'm well aware, of course, that it's not always possible to separate the two, but it's still worth mentioning I allow my PV inverter manufacturer to continue collecting system data but I have withheld my correct name or contact details.

Oh, and for the record I do not doubt your knowledge at all. You've posted quite a bit in the time you've been here and have demonstrated your capabilities and understanding perfectly clearly. My doubts in that area tend to be of myself instead.

@majordennisbloodnok 

In essence, I don't like big businesses, I do like how Octopus treat me but I recognise Octopus is a big business. That creates a conflict in my mind that I haven't resolved yet, and I posted about it.

Yeah, I get that - I think that's probably quite common (except of course the utter fanboys & girls 🤦🏻‍♀️). Part of it is a carefully cultivated 'brand identity' but part of it is that they're still, by all accounts, a good employer and offer fairly good (if a tad chaotic) customer services. 

Any major hedge-fund backing is something to keep an eye on. Despite huge successes and very rapid growth 🐙 has chosen not to go public. The rapid financialisation of assets since the 2008 financial crash is extraordinary. I once had to write an analytics brief for a big international investment bank client and it was called 'UK Assets'. I asked which UK (state) assets and the reply was: "all of them". 🙈 It really is a different beast to the corporates of old. 

However, not all data is equal and my big issue personally is with data about me, not about my smart meter. I'm well aware, of course, that it's not always possible to separate the two

It certainly isn't always possible to separate the two - your smart meter, for example, gives away lots of personal information - including when you are probably getting up, going to bed etc.,. (or growing big fat naughty plants in your cellar 🫢😂). 

Worse, is when data is amalgamated and cross-referenced - the opening paragraphs in Carrissa Véliz' book - Privacy is Power - really spell that out. From the moment you roll over in bed when you wake and tap your phone screen to check the time.. (Economist Book of the Year - to be recommended). 

Add this to facial recognition images (Britain has more surveillance cameras per capita than China), 'Open Banking' and so on and we bequeath our kids and grandchildren a potential nightmare. Authoritarian government creeps up by degrees and is then always just a vote away. 

Back to 🐙 and my point is, no matter how nice any corporate entity is right now, we'd do well to keep in mind they could change/get taken over/requisitioned/whatever and always take as much care as we can with our data and information. And for them, energy really is a side hustle (relatively speaking obviously).

Kraken is actually very interesting - it saved the UK from quite a big cross border electricity outage a couple of weeks ago by briefly draining and recharging an awful lot of the nation's domestic and commercial batteries. It was a great opportunity to test in the wild.

No need to apologise btw, but please be careful of that expression 'conspiracy theory', In my job I see it used too often by those with things to hide.