Posted by: @transparent

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@lucia  - Whilst looking for something else, I've come across a Submission by NG ESO to the Commons Select Committee on ESNZ last autumn, which ends with some comments on 'nodal' and 'zonal' pricing. They regard both as types of Locational pricing.

It's interesting that they see the future for the British electricity supply system being nodal.

That observations will be based on their expertise in

• how the electricity market works
• the 'value' of electricity being dependent on whether it needs to moved
• how consumers respond to market variations

Ie these are comments based on science rather than policy.

It is not just the fact that electrical energy needs to be moved from A to B, but also the quantity that needs to be moved at any given time. My person thought is that careful planning will be necessary to minimise the required upgrades to both the National Grid network and the local distribution systems.

Just as you can fast charge a battery or trickle charge a battery, the end result is the same, just the time element varies.

Strategically placed bulk storage is one way that energy can be slowly stored to meet peak demand in local areas.

@transparent Thanks for that. Interesting to see how they are thinking.  

I wish they'd stop with the hydrogen and carbon capture nonsense.... 

I've seen some bits of spiky criticism of locational pricing on twitter but nothing substantial.

@derek-m But inevitably we're really behind with the storage... 

Maybe every household should be issued with a battery rack and transformer... 😁

Posted by: @lucia

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@derek-m But inevitably we're really behind with the storage... 

Maybe every household should be issued with a battery rack and transformer... 😁

Would you think that to be cost effective?

Posted by: @lucia

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I wish they'd stop with the hydrogen and carbon capture nonsense.... 

I get the distinct impression that 'they' want to stop the hydrogen nonsense but fear lawsuits from big oil if they don't go through every possible stage of consultation and exploration. 

Hydrogen is just one of many baseless  delaying tactics the fossil companies are using, aided and abetted by the gas boiler industry and other vested interests.

It may have some niches, but certainly not in domestic heating or cars.

Posted by: @lucia

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wish they'd stop with the hydrogen and carbon capture nonsense.... 

Why is it nonsense?

Stripping power station emissions at the flue stack and processing, then pumping into spent oil and gas fields out of harms way. 

Renewable energy is great, if the sun's out or it's windy, if it's neither fire up the combined cycle gas generator, process the flue gas. Better still while it's windy make hydrogen with the excess spinning reserve then feed the gas turbines with it.

Posted by: @johnmo

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Posted by: @lucia

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wish they'd stop with the hydrogen and carbon capture nonsense.... 

Why is it nonsense?

Stripping power station emissions at the flue stack and processing, then pumping into spent oil and gas fields out of harms way. 

Renewable energy is great, if the sun's out or it's windy, if it's neither fire up the combined cycle gas generator, process the flue gas. Better still while it's windy make hydrogen with the excess spinning reserve then feed the gas turbines with it.

As regards Hydrogen I suspect @lucia was referring to hydrogen boilers/cars, which are nonsense.  Clearly there are niche industrial uses (such as the one you suggest) but not consumer.

I dont know enough about CC to comment.

Posted by: @jamespa

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I dont know enough about CC to comment

Pretty simple tech

Gas turbine driving a generator, via mechanical drive much like a wind turbine, the flue gas is very hot, this heats water to make steam, which in turn drives a steam turbine driven generator.

The gas turbine is an industrial version of an aircraft jet engine

@johnmo I think James was saying that he has little knowledge of ‘Carbon Capture’ rather than the generation kit. Toodles.

Posted by: @toodles

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@johnmo I think James was saying that he has little knowledge of ‘Carbon Capture’ rather than the generation kit. Toodles.

To many CCs

Flue gas is basically treated to extract only the CO2, this is pumped offshore by existing piping and injected and stored underground. One of the by product of the process is hydrogen. Early projects would either burn off via a flare as no useful use and removes the dangers.

Posted by: @jamespa

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Posted by: @johnmo

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Posted by: @lucia

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wish they'd stop with the hydrogen and carbon capture nonsense.... 

Why is it nonsense?

Stripping power station emissions at the flue stack and processing, then pumping into spent oil and gas fields out of harms way. 

Renewable energy is great, if the sun's out or it's windy, if it's neither fire up the combined cycle gas generator, process the flue gas. Better still while it's windy make hydrogen with the excess spinning reserve then feed the gas turbines with it.

As regards Hydrogen I suspect @lucia was referring to hydrogen boilers/cars, which are nonsense.  Clearly there are niche industrial uses (such as the one you suggest) but not consumer.

I dont know enough about CC to comment.

 

Running a Combined Cycle Gas Turbine (CCGT) on hydrogen produces water vapour not CO2, so there would be no need for Carbon Capture (CC).

@jamespa

You may find this of interest.

https://www.drax.com/about-us/our-projects/bioenergy-carbon-capture-use-and-storage-beccs/