Single vs. three phase for heat pump, EV and appliances
We're considering the electrical needs for our house which currently has a 100A fuse on the consumer board. We have an 18kW heat pump and various other appliances (fridges, TVs, routers, distribution pumps, etc.). We're also thinking about adding an electric vehicle (EV) charger in the future. Could you advise on whether a single-phase or three-phase electricity supply would be best suited for our situation?
Additionally, what are the key differences between single-phase and three-phase electricity in the context of residential use, especially considering the high electrical demand from the heat pump and the potential addition of an EV charger?
In terms of "upgrading" to three phase, it is a matter of splintering off from the power lines to our house or it is more complex than that?
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The 18 kW/h heat pump is presumably the rated output rather than consumption? Being a little pessimistic so perhaps a COP of 3.0 meaning 6 kW/h required for the heating? I have a rather smaller drain with just over 2.5 kW/h if running flat out (rarely seen it draw more than 1.5 - 2 kW/h though). Beyond that, being all electric, we have an induction hob, immersion heater (max. 3kW/h) and one of the two microwave combination cookers runs up to about 3.5 kW/h though now that is rare as we use the air fryer for most roasting etc. We don’t have an EV, the 100 amp fuse has taken everything so far. I note that the Tesla system pulls 10 kW/h when charging plus perhaps up to 3 kW/h more for domestic draw at this time occasionally. I suppose I may have loaded the system to approx. 15kW/h at times - we are on single phase. I imagine to go three phase will be teeth suckingly expensive? Regards, Toodles. (I will be interested on the developments on this topic!)
Toodles, he heats his home with cold draughts and cooks his food with magnets.
A 100A supply will provide up to approximately 24kW, which should be more than adequate for virtually all domestic needs.
I believe that for improved battery life EV's should be charged slowly if possible.
@derek-m that should give us ample breathing room then. With the heat pump running flat out (and the house maxed out too), we're never drawing more than 5-6kW - spikes to 8kW if doing a legionnaires run. Interesting. Thank you.
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@editor I did look at 3 phase, it was painful, got quoted 10k just for the DNO piece. and that was for tapping into the phases that's only 5 metres away on the street , already going to neighbours houses. Plus whatever for electrician works on my side, which I never tried to get quoted for.
I have a 100A fuse, I have a HP that pulls 6kw in worst case , only at the peak of the HW cycle. Plus 2 EV's (7kw each to charge) plus fully electric kitchen (10kw ish all maxed) plus 3 powerwalls (15kw). that does all work fine with single phase 100A. because not all are on all the time, and the batteries are bidirectional.
With 100A I can and do pull 23kw from grid during offpeak in winter for several hours if everything is charging overnight on cheap rate and the HP is running all night also. If I had less than 100A I would struggle to "download" enough cheap rate charge if both cars needed a large chunk.
Getting batteries helps as it can protect the main fuse / grid. You can tell a powerwall what the max allowed grid is, it will slow down its rate of charge (or discharge if needed, providing there is some charge in it of course) in order to protect the grid fuse.
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@iancalderbank When I had the first 13.5 kW/h of Powerwall, the system was configured with ‘permissions’ from Tesla in as much that when the system was ready to go, the installers had to contact Tesla for final settings to be configured I think. At that time, I could charge the battery at 5 kW/h. When the second 13.5 kW’h of capacity was added, the installer (different company) had to finalise some settings with Tesla and the battery can now draw or discharge at a rate of 10kW/h to / from the grid. Recharges, Toodles.
Toodles, he heats his home with cold draughts and cooks his food with magnets.
I did have a 100A fuse but noticed a couple of weeks ago that it was replaced with an 80A one when the service head was replaced last year as a result of a rotting backing board. The ASHP is still at the 'future development' stage at the moment but I do expect to have solar PV and a 6kW battery as soon as my DNO can spare the time to address my G99 application (first submitted in November, but that's another story). I already have an EV and charger. There is potentially a large power demand in the kitchen, with 2 ovens, a microwave, washing machine, dryer, dishwasher and hot tap, as the main loads. It's most unlikely that everything will be on at the same time, but I will monitor the trends and will ask for my 100A fuse to be returned if I think there is an issue. As a safety measure, both the EV charger and battery charger will automatically reduce demand if necessary, in any case.
I have single phase with a 100A fuse (we are a 100% electric house). The wiring is only 7 years old and we have a smart meter. The DNO is SSEN in this part of Oxfordshire. A neighbour, with two large electric SUV's, and wants to charge them quickly, has recently had their supply upgraded to three phase.
Although single phase is fine for our needs at present (any EVs clearly limited to 7kW charging though), it prompted me to consider the issue. I think electrical supply capacity will be like Internet speeds. We will mostly be happy with 1 phase for now but more and more people will want 3 phase as we pile on more demanding applications. But there won't be grid capacity to meet this demand. So get in early while it is still available?
In our village all power is brought in on overhead cables which share telegraph poles with the old BT phone service (we have fibre to the door internet via buried cables now). The nearest to me is in my neighbour's garden. SSEN quoted £6k + VAT to bring 3 phase to my meter. All new works have to go underground and this price excluded the cost of digging a suitable trench from the pole to my property.
I don't have an EV at present and itseems quite expensive for some forward planning that I presently have no urgency to implement.
The nerd in me would love to have 3 phase just because but, for now, I'll take my chances that single phase will serve us well for several years to go. I hope I am not proved wrong.
Mike
Grant Aerona HPID10 10kWh ASHP
We’re all elec too, and on a 100A single phase fuse. I haven’t considered changing it to 3phase - it would be simple though to fit even more PV 😎 Instead we got a home battery, which effectively allows more PV than we can export, and also removes pesky day time electricity use.
As is at night when plugged in the car draws 32A, the home battery 16A, heatpump 3A. During the day we’re either zero or exporting up to our permitted 32A.
Our elec voltage varies a lot, from 225V(at night if the Tesla is charging) up to 252V(day, full export).
I had a survey from UKPN as I was considering moving my supply (inside to outside) and we touched in three phase.
The costs were not small for a 3m distance to the cable - bout £5k. That was purely the UKPN costs - I'd need to organise the trench on my property and any other work.
His view was for most domestic cases 100A single phase was adequate and that included induction hob, PV, battery, EV charger & heat pump.
@gunboatdiplomat I should be OK then as I don’t have the EV but do have the rest! Regards, Toodles.
Toodles, he heats his home with cold draughts and cooks his food with magnets.
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