Notifications
Clear all

Incorrect Billing of Customers with a Smart Meter

73 Posts
11 Users
85 Reactions
1,489 Views
 djh
(@djh)
Active Member Member
73 kWhs
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 5
 

Just to note that the closing date for the consultation has been changed to the 21 June from today 11 June. (edited to correct typo in date)

This post was modified 3 days ago 2 times by djh

   
Transparent reacted
ReplyQuote
 djh
(@djh)
Active Member Member
73 kWhs
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 5
 

Posted by: @transparent

Just tell them that all Energy Smart Appliances (ESAs) should keep to a common clock system (probably defined by the Smart Meter).

I can believe that a car charger will be an ESA, but I don't think an actual car is. And I don't use the timing facilities in my charger, I use those in my car. So I'm not sure what I should be commenting on?


   
ReplyQuote
Transparent
(@transparent)
Famed Member Moderator
8698 kWhs
Veteran Expert
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1446
 

If you use the clock in the car to configure the charging times (as I do too) then that should fall within the comments which DESNZ obtain via this consultation. It might not be specifically mentioned in the Proposal Notes, but the answers we supply are free-form text. Just write it in!

They need to be aware that some of us the car's clock, and that this might be incorrect, particularly just after the clocks change twice per year.

Their proposals for DSR make too many assumptions about how us consumers actually behave.

If they really want to have all EV charging under the control of an Energy Supplier, then they'll have to create legislation which includes timing schedules set within a car. That won't occur to DESNZ unless we tell them.

Save energy... recycle electrons!


   
Derek M reacted
ReplyQuote



KoRWraith
(@korwraith)
Estimable Member Member
599 kWhs
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 53
Topic starter  

Posted by: @bxman

You can download your data and put it into excel with the appropriate hours and send it to your energy company and ask them to  compare it with your invoice I think you will find they have no option but to accept the Half Hourly data.

My 39 message email chain with EDF would suggest otherwise!

(Although evidently I was awarded a settlement via the Ombudsman process. Albeit, to grant a settlement for what will continue to be an ongoing billing issue is only half a solution)

 

 


   
ReplyQuote
(@derek-m)
Illustrious Member Moderator
13948 kWhs
Veteran Expert
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 4196
 

@korwraith

The simplest solution to both the overbilling problem, and the need to prevent numerous high consumption devices all switching on at the same time, would be for consumers to be informed of the randomised offset that has been applied within their electricity meter.

If the randomised offset is say 4 minutes and 11 seconds, and their ToU tariff runs from say 01:00 to 04:30, then armed with this knowledge they can merely set the switch on time to be 01:05 and the switch off time to be 04:34. Problem solved. 😎 

I cannot think of any reason why each consumer being informed of their particular offset would pose any risk to the security of the electricity supply system. 


   
ReplyQuote
KoRWraith
(@korwraith)
Estimable Member Member
599 kWhs
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 53
Topic starter  

@derek-m I completely agree, it really is that simple


   
ReplyQuote
Toodles
(@toodles)
Noble Member Contributor
5795 kWhs
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 900
 

@derek-m Unless of course, their timers cannot cope with such fine resolutions! Regards, Toodles.

Toodles, 76 years young and hoping to see 100 and make some ROI on my renewable energy investment!


   
ReplyQuote
(@derek-m)
Illustrious Member Moderator
13948 kWhs
Veteran Expert
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 4196
 

Posted by: @toodles

@derek-m Unless of course, their timers cannot cope with such fine resolutions! Regards, Toodles.

I would not have thought 1 minute to be a fine time resolution, obviously being able to set timing to the second would be preferable from the grid control point of view.

 


   
KoRWraith reacted
ReplyQuote
Toodles
(@toodles)
Noble Member Contributor
5795 kWhs
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 900
 

@derek-m Frinstance, the Myenergi Eddi works to 15 minute increments - I don’t know if this works to tighter increments when twinned with a Zappi as I don’t have any such device. I suppose it would not be beyond the software writers to improve the resolution, but, would the average user be expected to religiously establish their particular offset and set timings accordingly? Regards, Toodles.

Toodles, 76 years young and hoping to see 100 and make some ROI on my renewable energy investment!


   
ReplyQuote



(@derek-m)
Illustrious Member Moderator
13948 kWhs
Veteran Expert
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 4196
 

Posted by: @toodles

@derek-m Frinstance, the Myenergi Eddi works to 15 minute increments - I don’t know if this works to tighter increments when twinned with a Zappi as I don’t have any such device. I suppose it would not be beyond the software writers to improve the resolution, but, would the average user be expected to religiously establish their particular offset and set timings accordingly? Regards, Toodles.

You are probably correct. "We are doomed".

 


   
ReplyQuote
Transparent
(@transparent)
Famed Member Moderator
8698 kWhs
Veteran Expert
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1446
 

If end-users make a mess of setting devices to turn on just after their Smart Meter crosses into the 'cheap rate' period, then that is itself a form of randomisation. 😉 
It's still a lot better than what's currently happening with Suppliers starting our 'smart' chargers with minimal random offsets, and no appreciation of the local grid characteristics.

 

It does concern me, however, that DESNZ don't seem to appreciate how randomisation works or its effect on demand surges.

Their current proposals, around which the resilience of our future electricity supply is to be based, assume that more ESAs (Smart Devices) will be turned on/off or 'modulated' by receiving commands from a 3rd-party across the internet.

The data used to define when those control commands are sent will be national demand forecasts, irrespective of locally-available generation.

Moreover they envisage that the Independent System Operator & Planner (ISOP) will be supplied with those timings and will be responsible for ensuring that adequate electricity supplies are brought on-stream just ahead of when they're required. The DESNZ proposal is very much an example of "we control your stuff".

I don't think that's informed by an adequate view of how the Distribution Grid works.
I can see the data, and the weak points are at the 11Kv level and below.
That's where resilience is lacking.

The strategy to resolve excess current and thermal stresses at the local substations and their cables must be based on 'flattening the demand peak" in the early evening.

It has naff all to do with national demand.

I conclude that the design team who developed the Smart Meter specification around 2012-14 must've realised this.
They did know what they were doing,
and they put the randomised offset into the Smart Meters for good reason.

The current attempt to overrule that design feature by imposing centralised control of 'ESAs in the home' isn't based on good science.

 

This post was modified 3 days ago 3 times by Transparent

Save energy... recycle electrons!


   
KoRWraith reacted
ReplyQuote
(@bxman)
Active Member Member
82 kWhs
Joined: 1 month ago
Posts: 3
 

@transparent 

From my experience with OE  the problems have occurred when I have not been on a smart  tariff  . I believe that the H H is used regardless of offsets when on a smart tariff with OE.

I think the offsets control the time that the R1 & R2 delay their swap over .

On my E470 meter these are the default display on the meter screen showing as Rate 01 or Rate 02 and showing their respective totals depending on which one is operative at the time.

i can confirm that I can hear a relay switching at the time of changeover   

I have not yet checked but I think my interactions with OE over this matter may exceed the

the 39   

@KoRWraith had with EDF

   
Transparent reacted
ReplyQuote
Page 6 / 7



Share:

Join Us!

Latest Posts

Heat Pump T-Shirts

Delta T Sounds Greek to Me
x  Powerful Protection for WordPress, from Shield Security
This Site Is Protected By
Shield Security