I’ve seen our mains voltage very high on occasion, but I’ve never known anything happen due to it.  We get 253V on a sunny day here - I looked in the ena database at our inverter, and there are specific voltage&time combinations when it should / should not switch off, my conclusion is it’s high but ok.   Interestingly, I think our area is one of the many that hasn’t been re-tapped from when the uk mains was described as 240V - also attached a week of voltages here.  The serious dips are charging the car at night! 

I agree with @robl  that the G98 testing regime stipulates the time in which the inverter should 'trip'.

Your daily graph suggests to me that you were always within the 216v - 253v envelope.

I can't tell the accuracy of that graph however because I don't know if the voltage sensor is the same circuitry which the inverter itself uses to measure the voltage of its output when exporting.

In my earlier photo I showed the voltage displayed by the internal screen of the inverter, rather than via an App.
I'm confident that the inverter was seeing the same voltage as was being displayed.
It persisted in exporting above 253v, and therefore wasn't actually implementing the requirements of the G98 code. 😕 

In this case I had an adjacent inverter (connecting to a storage battery).

It did 'notice' the over-volts and detached itself from the grid after a minute or two.
It was the 'failure' of that inverter which led to me investigating what had occurred...
... and discovering the export above 253v.

This demonstrates my concerns about having devices exporting to the grid which aren't tested and certified to G98.

Failures affect others, whilst we may not notice anything being wrong.

Posted by: @lucia

↑

The kit on the approved list [...] is kit with all the required bits for uk regs.

To be eligible for a G98 Part A application it is quite size-limited in terms of voltage and everything else.

I've received further clarifications regarding what is and isn't able to be notified via the ENA Connect Direct site.
Many thanks to National Grid 😎 

1: Yes, the solar system must be hard-wired, but it also still needs to be on that pre-approved ENA database.

What it is listed under depends on who submitted it.
"Balcony Solar" might not be there, but a rival wholesaler/importer might be, and will therefore have named the equipment differently.

Equally, you could try putting in the name of the micro-inverter itself.

2: There is no G98 exclusion for devices rated at 800w and below if you're installing in UK.

The only two parameters which won't apply are

• Limited Frequency Sensitive Mode (Over frequency)
• Constant active power output

The other 13 parameters must still be verified as per the G98 requirements.

I'd prefer not to go into much more techie detail on the forum.

After all, we're consumers here, not importers trying to get devices registered on the ENA database. 😉 

The overall message remains the same: what we do needs to be "grid friendly".

@transparent 

1: Yes, the solar system must be hard-wired, but it also still needs to be on that pre-approved ENA database.

 

Er... that is EXACTLY what I said in my post above - see point a) in my post about steps which includes a LINK to the database. Many thanks to my DNO for supplying it.. 🤦🏻‍♀️😂

I also explained what the database is and who funds it. You can search by name and product number for approved kit. It enables consumers to break free from gatekeepers and it helps installers to quickly process paperwork amongst other things.  Please read my post. 

As I said, this fairly new website was set up as part of a project to simplify the entire process of home decarbonisation. (Building control rules were also changed and clarified to some degree after lobbying from industry and other interested parties.)

It's very much needed which the DNO's and government recognise. Home electrification, generation and storage needs to become simplified, accessible and efficient to install. 

@transparent

2: There is no G98 exclusion for devices rated at 800w and below if you're installing in UK.

 

Who said there was an exclusion? No one! 🤦🏻‍♀️

The post does not say there's a G98 exclusion for devices rated at 800w. The only time a specific size is referred to is in terms of cost. $$$$

As explained quite clearly, a G98 Part A is for small systems in terms of voltage etc where there is no other solar equipment installed. Specific sizes are not mentioned because I see no need to start listing voltages etc. This is a forum post not Wikipedia.  

And as stated, for these smaller systems a DNO does not have to be notified BEFORE installation but within 28 days after. 

G98 Part B is a whole different thing for larger roof top type systems which this thread is not concerned with. 

In the UK what is referred to as 'balcony solar' just means small 800w (or below) systems for balconies, garage roofs or gardens. No one has tried to say it's a unique clause in the G98 or that you search a database for kit called 'balcony solar'. That would be like searching the MCS database for 'heat pump'. 😩

I explained directly a few days back that my source of information was a contact at a DNO (amongst other sources including industry).  My post explains what the process is and hopefully counters some of the unnecessary complication.

After asking the initial question with which I started this thread I decided, as no one knew the answers, to fact check the entire thing myself. 

Despite repeating myself, I have tried to keep everything fairly clear and simple. 😩😂

Silly me...

... there I was thinking respondents here were discussing how to get 'plug and play solar systems' installed in GB...

which you can do if they are hard-wired by a qualified electrician,

but which we still shouldn't do because there don't appear to be any such products on the ENA database.

As @lucia has made clear, G98 Part A products don't need to be registered until after installation.

The process is indeed very simple,
but there is a looming hole appearing...

We can soon expect advertisements to appear in Britain offering such kits,
backed up with unsolicited phone calls from unscrupulous sales outlets.

The public will be attracted by "as used extensively in Germany" statements,
exaggerated claims of what they can achieve with 800W,
and impossibly low time-frames in which you'll get your money back with lower bills.

The result will be lots of kits being sold.

The few who read the small print will go to the ENA database and attempt to make a Notification under G98 Part A.

and only at this point will it occur to them that there's no approval for the product they've just installed.

So, being British and of impeccable integrity, they'll disconnect the system and wave goodbye to their money. 🤔 

@transparent Nah, they will go all technical and express it as ‘800,000 milliwatts! Impressive eh? Toodles.

@transparent 

which you can do if they are hard-wired by a qualified electrician,

but which we still shouldn't do because there don't appear to be any such products on the ENA database.

This is thread has gone into the realms of the bizarre....   Apologies for anyone interested in UK balcony solar systems, which have been on sale in the UK for a few years. Here's a post that explains how you go about organising such a system. 

As I have said multiple times in this thread you don't search the database for 'balcony solar'. You search by manufacturer and model. This EXACTLY the same as with any other database of equipment. 

just as you don't search the database for 'roof top solar'..... 🤦🏻‍♀️

Not sure why it is mentioned. (rhetorical question). 

We can soon expect advertisements to appear in Britain offering such kits,
backed up with unsolicited phone calls from unscrupulous sales outlets.

The public will be attracted by "as used extensively in Germany" statements,
exaggerated claims of what they can achieve with 800W,
and impossibly low time-frames in which you'll get your money back with lower bills.

They've been on sale in the UK and Ireland for a while - no one is doing this. 

All the systems I have looked at that are sold as 'systems' (as opposed to shopping for each individual component which is more usual) are sold by model names and numbers. None of them are 'new' - they've been around ever since micro-inverters and the fall in price in panels made them plausible. There's now companies producing lightweight panels for vertical installation which added to the interest.

This is how renewable kit is sold whenever I have searched.  As anyone who goes looking for a battery or inverter or whatever, knows. Or indeed a heat pump.  Hey ho.... 

I can't help but feel this thread could do with a bit of summarising. There appear to be several basic questions to which we now have answers, so I'm going to simply paraphrase what I have learned from this thread - I'm not qualified to add a technical opinion so am not going to even try and do so.

• Are "Plug and Play" or "Balcony" kits legal to buy in the UK? Yes.
• Are "Plug and Play" or "Balcony" kits legal to install in the UK? No, not as supplied and not without jumping through a number of regulatory hoops (that are there for a good reason) that mandate the use of a qualified electrician to carry out the installation or at least the connection of microinverter to the mains.
• Are they safe? No reason why the kits themselves should be inherently unsafe if installed correctly, but there are no doubt good and bad manufacturers so not all will necessarily meet UK safety requirements. If not installed correctly, there could be could be safety concerns.
• Are they G98 approved? No blanket answer any more than a standard hybrid inverter; just because one is approved doesn't mean another similar one is too. Devil's in the detail. The inverter supplied in the kit @lucia linked to in her OP (a Hoymiles 600W inverter) does appear to be G98 approved but there were several other balcony solar kits I found online that were using inverters from manufacturers who don't appear in the ENA database - the Anker Solix setup @adrian posted is one of them. High degree of buyer beware here.
• Can they be MCS certified? Doubtful but largely academic since that's only necessary to get paid for any export and level of export would be too low for making money to be a justifying factor.
• Will they export to grid? If the home has no load (e.g. when someone goes on holiday) and they're installed in a grid-connected home then yes. The amounts may not be much but it will happen. Without MCS certification, however, you'd be giving leccy to the grid for free.
• Will they cut out if the grid voltage goes outside the 253-216 window? I have to presume here that that is part of the requirement for G98 approval in the ENA database, underlining the need to pick a kit that is in that database and avoid anything that's not.

As a result of all that, crunching the numbers and adding in the extra cost of sparky and a few ancilliary bits for proper installation suggests a G98-approved system should cost in the region of £2,000 and give a payback of about 5 years.

Because of the need to satisfy G98 requirements, the terms "balcony solar" and "plug and play solar" are not interchangeable in the UK - a point both @transparent and @lucia have made as the thread has gone on. The complexities of involving a professional are the same with the balcony solar kits as with full blown solar installations but the former are simpler processes in practice by avoiding the MCS certification necessary to get an export tariff.

The worry unscrupulous marketeers will sell "plug and play" systems in the UK by promising the world and walking away before the DNO tells the customer to disconnect their system appears to be unfounded since the evidence of several years' history of these kits already being sold in the UK suggests that activity either hasn't taken place or has been occasional at most. However, it is evident from looking around t'interweb that there are plenty of UK sites selling these balcony kits as plug and play self-installation options, so it seems clear to me that there is a fair bit of misrepresentation or misselling going on - just not the aggressive type; trading standards and the advertising standards authority ought to be perfectly adequate tools for dealing with this although those bodies could do with being more vigilant in this area.

I hope I've got all that about right but if anyone spots any mistakes I'm happy to edit.

That's a fair synopsis @majordennisbloodnok 

But I do wonder if this subject matter is going to remain entirely theoretical.

Has anyone found such a solar/inverter kit which is actually on the ENA database?
And if so, what's it called?

Posted by: @transparent

↑

…

Has anyone found such a solar/inverter kit which is actually on the ENA database?
And if so, what's it called?

Yes, @transparent. As I mentioned in my earlier post, the kit @lucia linked to in her original post would fit the bill. I looked into the bundle and found the inverter (a Hoymiles) was listed on the ENA database as G98-compliant. Obviously, it would not be acceptable to install the kit as intended by the Dutch seller but if installed properly according to the points made in the thread then I believe it would pass all the requirements in place in the UK.

N.B. It’s the inverter rather than the complete kit that I found on the database. I am assuming that, given the inverter is the only bit of the kit actually attached to the mains, that is sufficient. If that’s wrong, please correct me.

Spot on.

I think that's the right approach... Notify the DNO on the basis of the inverter, rather than whatever the 'kit' is called.

If you find any other similar inverters on the ENA list then let's post them here too.

@majordennisbloodnok 

I can't help but feel this thread could do with a bit of summarising. There appear to be several basic questions to which we now have answers, so I'm going to simply paraphrase what I have learned from this thread

Please stop tagging me. I unsubscribed because it has been somewhat derailed. It’s not very helpful for anyone who may be interested in the subject to have to wade through loads of diversion. 

I wrote  an itemised post that explains most of the basics necessary to know about installing what is known as ‘Balcony Solar’. 

In policy threads or political threads back and forth is great but not in a thread that was started for learning or tech reasons. A couple of people have asked good Qs but they got drowned out in the noise. 

Some of the responses seem to be just plain daft. Sorry. We’ve gone from ’you’ll blow up the grid’ to shark infested salesmen waters. Is it really helpful to write lengthy posts about there not being ’balcony solar’ in the database? I think not. 

As I said, would anyone be looking at a visibly obvious brand name product list for ‘roof top solar’? I mean the list is literally an alphabetical brand and product list. As they all are, including heat pump registration lists. They are designed to cut out some of the gatekeepers btw. Ha! 

In this thread I was happy to answer questions, listen to facts or thoughts from anyone genuinely interested.  I was hoping someone would come along to this excellent site who actually knew about them. I would equally have been happy to link to UK kit or the suppliers that I now know instead of the Dutch website in my first post but for now I decided not to waste anymore time on it.  

Now we have extended summaries with/without charts of the responses to the responses to the obfuscation & probably a nest of sparrows lurking for good measure. 🤦🏻‍♀️😂

I now know enough & have spoken to sufficient experts, including as I said previously, the DNO, plus installers, to eventually write something. Which wasn’t my intention when I started this thread. 

Maybe that will be more accessible for interested people instead of endless pages of mansplaining daftness. 😭😂

Absolutely no offence intended at all but guys…. really.  I mean really, really?  🤦🏻‍♀️