Thinking about how to heat our new home: a 330 year old former paper mill
Hi - I’m in the process of buying a 330 year old former paper mill for my family home. Exciting but somewhat daunting as we’re moving out of a ‘new’ build. However, the character and the river views are too compelling to ignore.
Current space and water heating setup is very dated:
- 2 large electric immersion heater/tanks for HW
- Electric storage heaters in most rooms for heating (large brown ‘70s style)
- Gas boiler heating for 1 large room and indoor pool (pool heating part currently decommissioned)
We expect to be moving in ~2-months so trying to get ahead by reading more on renewable solutions. It’s quite large (3,500 sq/ft) and presumably poorly insulated given the age.
I’m currently tempted to lean into a modern and more efficient full-electric option supported by Solar PV as I think the property is likely a poor candidate for ASHP, the appealing hydro option has been torpedoed by recent Environment Agency announcement to uplift extraction licence fee to £12k, GSHP/WSHP both seem expensive and potentially not even possible due to the site (smallish garden and river being an SSSI).
Lots to learn, happy to be here.
David
Welcome to the forums @junglied. Don’t dismiss the ASHP yet because if the insulation is poor, you’ll need to address it irrespective of the heat source.
I’d definitely look into water source. I’ll ask the GSHPA about protected/SSSI rivers and water source coils. That would be your ideal solution. Do you own any part of the river?
Ground source will also work. Since land is limited vertical boreholes are a definite option. They’re just quite pricey but a good long term investment.
The property sounds terrific. Share some photos.
Buy a copy of the The Ultimate Guide to Heat Pumps
Subscribe and follow our Homeowners’ Q&A heat pump podcast
Before you say poorly insulated, I'm going to assume it needs a tonne of work. Have you considered insulated plasterboard? You can do a lot of heavy lifting using that to insulate inside which will massively reduce your heating costs. Yes it's expensive, but it's cheaper than a GSHP
Thanks - I won't dismiss anything. Especially with £5-6k grant likely to be available if an ASHP or GSHP allows me to remove the boiler. I will start with an energy efficiency audit to help inform my decision either way. I believe part of the river is within the title boundary but and the property has some kind of extraction allowance accordingly - will hopefully learn more when I have searches etc in hand from the solicitor.
I've got to say the ghastly brown storage heaters were doing a very good job at keeping the place toasty during both our viewings but I wince at the thought of what they must cost to run post April.
@batalto You're right - I'm making an assumption that I don't know to be true about the insulation. So first-order is to have an energy audit conducted to find out ground truth. I didn't know about insulated plasterboard so will give that some thought if it comes back as needing enhancements.
@junglied there is a tool in my signature if you want to just do your own rough survey. Do you know the current details? The building should have an EPC, which not ideal, should give you a starting point for insulation levels. I assume you aren't in yet?
@batalto Thanks. That will give me a good start. I'll get the full EPC from the selling agent (I just know it's an 'E' with potential to become 'D' according to the abbreviated version) then follow your link.
I see from your signature block that you use solar PV, batteries and ASHP to supply your home which is a similar size (especially because one whole floor in ours will be zoned for guest/intermittent use). Due to the fact I have no plumbing or water-filled radiators already in place I'm particularly drawn to the idea of a potentially less disruptive option to simply install appropriately sized and modern efficiency electric-smart radiators and whatever funky solutions are available to heat water efficiently with electricity - and use Solar PV / batteries to do so. I would miss out on the Boiler Upgrade Scheme because that requires a heat pump to meet air and water requirements for the home though. I'll be comparing this option against under floor for the whole place as the floors need changing - but I can see that getting prohibitively expensive even with £5k subsidy....
@junglied I would really not advise electric heaters. In the end you'll pay a fortune in bills. If you want the best system, go UFH with a heat pump or a gas boiler. Solar and batteries will help with a heat pump, but it's a waste with electric
@batalto UFH over such a large space? That's an interesting thought and would potentially open up the BUS grant again if powered by heat pump... All carpets will be getting replaced anyway so it's something to look into for sure. I just want to make sure insulation is on point to make my home a good candidate for UFH given my wife's reliance on 'radiated' heat from a conventional rad (if that's a real thing)...
@junglied ufh is going to be far more efficient in a large space. If we had the choice we would have put it in, but our house was already done by builders when we bought it, so retrofit made no sense.
With ufh the water temperature will be around 10° less than with radiators. You'll probably be on a cop of 4 or 5. We have radiators and our winter cop has been around 3.
The larger and more open the space the less radiators make sense. If your wife really loves a single heat source, add a wood burner.
@batalto Thank you - this is music to my ears and makes perfect sense. There's already a large and effective wood burner so we can always get that going if a top-up is needed.
The beautiful thing about this solution is that I can fit UFH first when replacing floors possibly leveraging the existing boiler for a while but then step it up in stages as funds/incentives/development allows (boiler to ASHP to solar PV etc). I presume individual room thermostats are all compatible with such a system if setup correctly? The whole downstairs will only be used when visitors arrive so I don't plan to heat that often....
@junglied, yes existing thermostats should work.
Buy a copy of the The Ultimate Guide to Heat Pumps
Subscribe and follow our Homeowners’ Q&A heat pump podcast
- 26 Forums
- 2,208 Topics
- 48.7 K Posts
- 57 Online
- 5,868 Members
Join Us!
Podcast Picks
Latest Posts
-
RE: Heat Pump Installers: Competence, Illusion and the Hard Truth Homeowners Must Face
@fiona I admire your optimism in regard to what your...
By JamesPa , 14 minutes ago
-
RE: Renewables & Heat Pumps in the News
The main reason we cannot rule out an attack on the Ibe...
By Transparent , 1 hour ago
-
RE: The Hidden Secret to a Successful Heat Pump: Pipe Size Matters
@jamespa And then there was the window company I had...
By davidnolan22 , 2 hours ago
-
RE: Bizarre Retro-fixes by AAC
So one of the best but simple mistakes I have ever seen...
By ASHP-BOBBA , 3 hours ago
-
RE: Are We Sleepwalking Into Another Race to the Bottom?
It a ridiculous approach, impossible to have zero disru...
By dgclimatecontrol , 3 hours ago
-
@ashp-bobba Thanks. I'll be interested to find out why ...
By bontwoody , 14 hours ago
-
RE: Daikin 9kW to 8kW Swap Offer from Octopus
The ACH can actually make a huge difference. My heat l...
By Matban , 16 hours ago
-
Can that be interrogated using Modbus? Over an RS485 ...
By Transparent , 17 hours ago
-
If you've never played (or heard of) Pirate Fluxx, then...
By Transparent , 18 hours ago
-
RE: Samsung Heat pump with Yonos Pico circulating pump running all the time
This is going to be interesting because Samsung’s suppo...
By Mars , 20 hours ago
-
RE: Mitsubishi Ecodan F8 error
Better than an early Windows/DOS error 'Faulty keyboard...
By JamesPa , 1 day ago
-
I can now, I done an automation in Home Assist...
By DREI , 1 day ago
-
RE: Bosch CS5800i 5kW - Experience So Far
What a difference a pump makes. We don't have OpenEne...
By Steelbadger , 1 day ago
-
RE: Inventor (Midea) Heat Pump short cycling advice
I installed the 80L tank (volumizer) things got better ...
By immunity , 1 day ago
-
RE: Testing new controls/monitoring for Midea Clone ASHP
@papahuhu at the end of the day if you are happy with h...
By benson , 2 days ago
-
RE: Can you recommend a Mitsubishi service engineer in the Rochdale area?
@dgclimatecontrol We'll all need annual servicing. How...
By Suzy-shadow , 2 days ago
-
RE: Octopus tariffs - a quick comparison
Does indeed need checking, @tim441. Neither Homely ...
By Majordennisbloodnok , 2 days ago
-
RE: How not to install a heat pump
Delighted to hear that the buffer has been replumbed as...
By JamesPa , 2 days ago