Posted by: @burtis

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@cathoderay 

Don't know if you have a idea. 

My circulation pump next to the buffer is set to max in theory 3.5m³/H

The heat pump is pushing 0.5m³/H

So in theory to balance them better I should drop the pump output?? 

On the face of it, perhaps, but we do want the pump to take all the heat the heat pump is delivering. But 'set to max' is a bit opaque to say the least. It could be 'set to max' but have a bung in the outlet => flow rate 0m^3/h! In other words, circuit resistance matters.

I have the same problem. compounded by Grudfos jargon. The only pump 'readout' is via traffic light LEDs and I am currently on CC£ sorry CC3 which is Constant Curve Max which is supposed to be constant speed but I have no idea what the actual flow rate is.

I haven't thought of a better way to estimate secondary flow. Maybe other have some ideas that don't involve expensive complicated and intrusive third party solutions?

@cathoderay 

Yeah fair buddy mine is on constant 3 basically as high as it can go. 

Will leave it for now

I've a similar challenge to yourselves - no fancy monitoring over and above what my Samsung controller is telling me. However, I do have a few cheap temperature sensors and by using these to measure secondary flow and return temps, along with knowledge of how many kW are being generated, I can make an approx estimate using the equation below. Note this assumes the figure for heat energy generated (measured at the heat pump) is the same as the heat energy transmitted to the secondary side, which is pretty reasonable if you're in stable conditions. 

Generated Energy (kW) = Flow Rate (litres/sec) x Specific Heat Capacity (4.18 for water, around 3.9 for glycol, depending on concentration) x Temp Difference (°C between flow and return).

It's a little approximate because my temp measurements aren't exactly accurate to 0.1°C but, do this a few times when your system is stable, and you'll have a half decent estimate . Try it at different pump settings and you'll be able to plot your own characteristic system curve!

I try to make my secondary flow as near as possible to the primary flow, or slightly lower. This minimises turbulence (and losses) in the buffer tank and means I see only a small temperature drop from primary inlet to secondary outlet. 

@dunlorn 

Good shout that buddy will give it a go at some point if I don't get anywhere with them 

Another update with no fruit 

Still absolutely no communication from MCS or NAPIT since 5th of December. 

Called NAPIT a while ago and they said they will get back to me within their time frame of 5 to 10 days 😢

Looks like MCS are launching their new website and processes in January so that may be a cause of slow down and I guess being near Christmas. 

This is going to take a loooooong time it seems to get anywhere. 

Installers have again said they don't want to do any work including the service, fitting/filling up anti freeze and sorting the basic installation problems out. 

@burtis it's unbelievable how appalling and frustrating this process is.

Another day of flow errors, oh what joy....

Still no reply either

Will start the process of contacting everyone again tomorrow...

@burtis  - can I check if you are reading other topics here where ASHP owners are delving into issues and identifying the causes of problems?

The feedback from @cathoderay on his Midea unit is particularly insightful.
He is going far deeper into the technology that others would ever expect to do.

There's a massive difference between the information supplied by manufacturers to the likes of MCS and DESNZ,
and what end-users are actually experiencing.

Until the 'official bodies' realise that they need to involve the general public in their analysis, we will continue to see new regulations and policy developed which fails to address the issues.

@editor  please take note, I've stated that very deliberately!

@transparent 

Yeah I have a browsed a few things here and there buddy. 

Hard to keep up with a lot of it as I also browse Facebook groups as well as working 50 hours weeks 😅 

I have found if I get a error I can clean the filter even though it's clean every time and dump the water out that in that section of pipe. Re fill it and it kicks back into life. 

I will look into what you mentioned later regarding the other posts in more detail. 

Cheers buddy

NAPIT have reopened the case and it's being reviewed again. 

Thanks to MCS saying that their Audit is not a justified case for the issues that I have. 

Just a waiting game again now 

Posted by: @transparent

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Unfortunately @burtis James is right.

MCS is the Government's preferred vehicle to deliver the domestic initiatives they wish to promote (solar panels, battery storage, Boiler Upgrade Scream etc).
Apart from fees paid to it by those it accredits as installers, it also receives significant income from HMG itself.

When it comes to the issue of Heat Pumps, MCS made its case to Government that the accredited installers should self-certify their work in the same manner that electricians do.

MCS considers itself as worthy an organisation as the National Inspection Council for Electrical Installation Contracting (NICEIC), ELECSA or Electrical Contractors Association (ECA).

But the evidence doesn't bear that out.
Whilst we enjoy high professional standards in respect of the electrical portions of heat-pump installation, contractors don't even appear to understand the relevant Building Regulations requirements.

The people who should be complaining about this are the Local Planning Authorities.
They have responsibility for enforcing Building Regulations, and can be held to account (legally) if they allow work in their area which doesn't comply.
MCS has made an arrangement which goes above their heads - a conflict with the existing legislation.

That's why I write here on the Forum that consumers with failed installations should be communicating with their local LPA Councillor.
It is they who have the mandate to ensure that Building Regulations are enforced.

And if that fails, then your next recourse is to your MP.
Government shouldn't have granted permission to MCS that they can stray into Planning legislation.

 

Yes, I've done a lot of research into this.

So you can copy whatever you need from my posts here on the Forum in order to inform Councillors and MPs what the problem is.

at the bottom of our installers invoice it said we were liable for confirming LPA standard/guidelines met etc.  Thankfully we were all ok with ours