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The good, the bad and the not that great – my heat pump installation

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I will suggest that the better Installers are more likely to be local, working from a single address, and not employing sub-contractors.
Their reputation is a significant asset, which they wish to protect.

Conversely, the poor installations are more likely to be carried out by county-wide or national companies.
A poor installation can be fobbed off because they'll obtain work elsewhere anyway.

There's nothing to prevent a Local Planning Authority from having their own list of Recommended Installers.
They could charge their installers a fee for a Building Control Inspection at the end of every job...
... which in turn would be listed as a separate item on the original quotation.

The Recommended Installers could then drop paying an annual subscription to the likes of NAPIT,
and would probably never need to advertise again either.

Save energy... recycle electrons!


   
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Burtis
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Again another E0 error (E8 flow error 3 times) 

Let hope that it doesn't happen when temps drop below zero as there isn't any glycol or anti freeze valves 😬

MCS are now going to talk to NAPIT to see why they closed the case and it is being passed on to the correct department in MCS for compliance.

Guy Daniel was really friendly over the phone and wanted to help which was great to hear.

Will report back again when I know more


   
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Mars
 Mars
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@burtis unbelievable how long this process takes, and it requires so much time and patience. Really keen to see what MCS have to say and what NAPIT’s reasoning was.

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Burtis
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@editor 

Same to be honest buddy, I don't mind waiting it's the not knowing that's annoying me. 

And if like I said above the system goes down and it freezes and destroys the heat pump who is liable for it....? 

My flow rate at the moment is well below the minimum 1m³/h to trigger the fault 

Filter is clean 😕

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cathodeRay
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Posted by: @burtis

My flow rate at the moment is well below the minimum 1m³/h to trigger the fault 

That's interesting. I don't think I've ever seen a flow rate that low. My problem is the flow rate tends to be fixed at around 1.4m^3/h, and that constrains the output (my installer is going to talk to Freedom next week about this).

The heating is currently off on that display (HEAT PUMP CAPACITY is the current power output and it is zero; POWER CONSUM is incorrectly named by the way, it is lifetime energy (kWh) use). It would be interesting to know what the OAT is (House symbol on the home page) and the LWT/RWT (TW_O PLATE W-OUTLET TEMP and TW_I PLATE W-OUTLET TEMP).

Posted by: @burtis

And if like I said above the system goes down and it freezes and destroys the heat pump who is liable for it....? 

I think you can make a very good case that it is your installer who is liable. To leave a system without any form of frost protection in the event of a power cut of heat pump failure is negligent. The whole point of adding antifreeze fluid or valves is to protect the heat pump in exactly those circumstances. Leave out the protection, and the heat pump subsequently gets damaged... Imagine the same thing with a car (mechanic fails to add antifreeze) - who would be liable if the engine gets damaged? Of course knowing who is liable doesn't mean that person will accept liability let alone step up and do something. 

Some will say you should, as you also know there is a risk, take action, ie get another installer in to add either antifreeze fluid or valves. Whether you do that is up to you, but I have to say if I were in your position I would seriously consider doing that. You can claim the cost off your installer, but even if you don't get it back, it is still money well spent. To end up with a destroyed heat pump is not only a major practical headache (how to keep warm) but it will also greatly increase the time to sort things out, not to mention give the lawyers a field day.   

Midea 14kW (for now...) ASHP heating both building and DHW


   
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cathodeRay
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@burtis - another, more worrying point occurred to me. I think at some point you may have said you asked your installers not to add antifreeze, because you were going to drain the system, perhaps to do some decorating, at some point, in which case it may well be argued that you are responsible, and so liable. All the more reason to get some frost protection added ASAP...

Midea 14kW (for now...) ASHP heating both building and DHW


   
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Burtis
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@cathoderay 

Well they didn't add any to begin with because we had radiators off the wall.

And yes I did agree why waste it 

Funny they were meant to come back and add anti freeze and do a flush but because of all these problems and them not replying having to escalate it they said they won't do any more on the matter until MCS supply their report. 

I may email them and see if they want to perform these tasks and leave the rest till later


   
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Burtis
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@cathoderay

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That's with it running fan spinning I assume

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This post was modified 2 days ago 2 times by Burtis

   
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cathodeRay
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Posted by: @burtis

I may email them and see if they want to perform these tasks and leave the rest till later

I think that is a very good idea. Point out gently that doing these tasks will make life easier for everyone/what if the heat pump does destroy itself for want of frost protection - do they really want that hassle? Furthermore, if you put the request in writing (via email) then you have put the liability firmly back on them, because you have requested they do it, and they refused (if they don't do it).

Posted by: @burtis

That's with it running fan spinning I assume

Yes and no. There is both the fan and the compressor, and you can, I believe, have the former running without the latter.

I think your heat pump may be cycling (if like mine, low frequency, so OK) at the moment. If you look at the LWT/RWT values they are changing. It's much easier to see what is going on/has gone on if you have logged minute by minute data as I have, but you can at a pinch get most of what you want to know from the wired controller, even if it is somewhat ephemeral. 

WATER FLOW, current output (HEAT PUMP CAPACITY) total lifetime energy use (POWER CONSUM) and LWT/RWT we have already covered. On page 6 of the OPERATION PARAMETERS, you have the COMP. CURRENT and COMP. FREQUENCY which are both for the compressor (and will tell you whether the compressor is running, while on page 7 you have the fan speed (in RPM). Cycling through the pages, you can get a feel for what the heat pump is doing. You also have the symbols on the home page, the arrowhead in a circle in the central panel means the circulating pump is running, the petrol pump sign (WTF) in either the right or left hand panels tells you the compressor is running.  

I stopped using the Midea app ages ago and can't remember if it records LWT. It it does, and records it often enough, and your heat pump is cycling, you should see a saw tooth pattern in the trace.

But your priority for now is getting that frost protection sorted! We've already had two cold spells, and are still only in November.  

Midea 14kW (for now...) ASHP heating both building and DHW


   
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Burtis
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@cathoderay 

It's all a bit over my head all this maybe one day I will dig into it deeper but really I shouldn't have to. 

I have spoken to freedom heat pumps and they agree anything below 1m³/H is not what you want to see there is clearly a issue.

I may email them to get a response in writing also. 

I have also messaged the installer seeing if they can sort out the basics of the install like the antifreeze and flow issues which have been present since install to be honest even they said when it was installed flow seems low 🤔

Have also offered them a chance if they wanted to start addressing any of the other issues so when MCS get back to me I can say if anything has improved but we shall see if they respond. 

It's also 1 year old now and due its first service, so if they refuse I will have to go elsewhere but my warranty will be much worse 


   
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Burtis
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Hot water running this time similar flow rates. 

Phoned Midea and they said yes most likely a plumbing problem 


   
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cathodeRay
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Posted by: @burtis

Hot water running this time similar flow rates. 

If you get this in time, can you do some more screen grabs as the water continues to heat. It would be particularly useful to see what the heat pump capacity goes up to, ditto the LWT.

Midea 14kW (for now...) ASHP heating both building and DHW


   
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