@benson Yikes Indeed! I did not have any contingencies as everything was in the original details; that is allowing for the agreements made with their original surveyor that didn’t get passed on in full as he ‘left their employ’ soon after my survey. The agreement included removal of the old cold water tank in the loft, capping off any pipes that might remain and placing the tank insulation material down as loft insulation. A particular towel rail was chosen but was not forthcoming until I pointed out that a larger than usual size was requested; there were a few other minor things but they accepted them all and complied without a murmur.

 I had Cinergi back just this week as I was unhappy with the external pipe insulation and a chap spent about three hours sorting that all out to my satisfaction.

The ‘50 C.’ Was also in my details but I turned that down as soon as it was commissioned to 40 degrees and eventually found 35 C. was sufficient for us but warm weather had arrived and made final tweaking difficult until the late autumn last year - then we had the Homely controller fitted and that does all the dynamic tweaking for us now! As far as I recall, all the MCS required details were filled in on the installation and commissioning documents though I am quite sure the calculations for the previous and the expected energy consumption figures were at best a rough guide only. This was because my previous energy supplier EonNext had made such a pig’s ear of the details on my bills, noone could have made an accurate and honest calculation from their data! Regards, Toodles.

@toodles interesting. The problem is, that is the same issue I am having. Things are mentioned and agreed by the surveyor, yet aren't written in the proposals- this is after reminding them to include it yet it still isn't. Mistakes are being made with the radiators e.g. one proposed change is exactly what we currently have. I'd already pointed this out, and the explanation was that they forgot to measure when they surveyed. Fine- things are missed, but don't just guess what we do and don't have, and even worse even after pointing it out keep it on the final proposal. I'm having to then go over it with a fine tooth comb and send three or four emails requesting things are checked/changed. Prices also seem a little random- not just the day rate but one radiator supply comes off the proposal yet the price goes up rather than down.I haven't got the time to check all their work for mistakes and neither am I inclined to think I should have to, when considering the amount of money we would potentially be paying them.

Posted by: @toodles

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The ‘50 C.’ Was also in my details but I turned that down as soon as it was commissioned to 40 degrees and eventually found 35 C. 

So yours has no weather compensation? 

@benson Yes, WC is used by Homely along with weather predictions etc. Toodles.

@toodles right thanks. I think I understand that part now as that is essentially a part of the controls that are being installed.

We were looking at the sensocomfort and this is what has been included so I guess we'd just need to check that is set up correctly. Getting away from the on off set up we currently have was a big draw of the ASHP in the first place.

Anyway I will see what Cinergi come back with. The person you recommended (Kate) has been copied into the proposals that were sent (and my queries), but just casting the net out again with a couple more local installers in the meantime. In fairness to Cinergi, one of the other companies I approached came round to our house but did no heat loss survey, and then just sent a contract over requesting a deposit with no steer whatsoever as to even what radiators they'd be replacing- thus they've definitely one of the better ones.

@benson After my initial enquiries with Octopus, we had 20 other companies we contacted - many did not even respond, some said they didn’t cover our area and at least one was ‘shortlisted out’ as he dashed in, looked around for a few minutes, gave us a price and no details whatsoever! Regards, Toodles.

We’re in Hampshire and at the getting quotes stage too.

We’ve also been in contact with Cinergi and sent back 14 questions on their first quote.

When the engineer came round he outlined their design which was for a flow design temperature of 55C (much too high) and he said we really wouldn’t want our desired 40-45C flow temperature because of the huge radiators that would require. Their standard design was using a LLH but they called it a buffer (4 port). Our questions were all around these issues.

Now after a conversation with the owner/boss we have some answers which we're working through. It is still a work in progress though.

We have one other quote from a guy who is so busy that installation dates are September and another coming for outline discussions tomorrow. I’ll PM you.

@judith I’m a little surprised that their ‘preference’ is for a flow design temperature of 55 degrees C; this seems exceedingly high to me and obviously defeats the idea of a good COP from an LT heat pump. When Cinergi commissioned my system, they did so with 50 degrees C, the weather was mild and I immediately reduced this setting to 40 and later to 35 C. We had 8 of our 10 radiators replaced and though slightly larger than the old ones (mainly thickness) these have been more than up to the task. The whole house was ‘toasty’ (22.5 degrees C) last winter when the OAT was minus 7 or 8 degrees C. In fact they wanted to fit a radiator in the smallest bedroom that is used as an office with a radiator larger than the old fitting was and I explained that it was not practical to have such a size in the room due to fixed furniture etc. I requested a smaller size that will and does fit and it has to be kept just a gnats wotsit from fully closed on the lock shield valve  to keep the temperature from soaring! I always address my questions and requests through Kate as she ensures I receive a response; Ian’s mind often seems to be on other jobs! Regards, Toodles.

Hi Judith- definitely interesting to hear of your experiences thus far, and compare notes.

We've written Cinergi off. They just come across as Octopus-esque in their approach with sales, production teams, surveyors and for us at least, lack of attention to detail as a result of this.

Toodles- the more you describe your experience with them, the more it endorses in my mind that we made the right decision to decline their proposal. Their surveyor told me that they assume no insulation in all of our upstairs rooms when they did their heat loss survey and therefore one might assume a tendency to overcompensate. Again this whole process just felt a bit rushed which I guess comes with a company that are churning through free surveys constantly. 

@benson I have assumed (in the past anyway) that I am a fusspot! When it comes to contractors (of any flavour, any skill, any ‘job’ that requires a skill of one description or other to complete), I can honestly say that I have had to ‘tackle’ the contractor over one or more points of the work. Some years back, I came across the term ‘Snagging’; this was to me a new term and over successive years, this has become a more and more popular expression that is being uttered ever more frequently.

Maybe ‘snagging’ is an inevitable result of evermore complex systems and or my demand for higher performance and excellence in any work I contract to have carried out. The sort of ‘snagging’ I am thinking of is having to request that pipework for hot water be lagged, installing a pump the right way up rather than upside down, repairing mortar where holes have been drilled through a wall for cabling.

These are just examples from one installation contract but by no means the only instance; being a fusspot when any work is carried out is second nature these days. It is not just in work involving heating contractors; it also happens with vertical blinds, fitted bedroom furniture, fitted kitchens, driveway ….. the list is long so I’ll stop here.

My point is, has it become the norm to expect failings in any work one has carried out by a contractor?

Regards, Toodles.