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How I Negotiated a Better Deal on My Heat Pump Installation with Octopus Energy

NJT · 2024-08-06T10:29:40Z

Morning all, I've been around for the last few weeks trying to get my head around all the different terminology involved with heat pumps. I got a quote from Octopus after survey of £4100 to pay on our 4 bed 120sq/m house.(This compares to Heat Geeks £6400) 3 radiator replacement, a Daikin 8kw heat pump 210ltr cylinder, removal of gas boiler and meter in garage. Cylinder going where boiler was in garage and heat pump directly behind garage wall as all pipework from gas boiler already there. Surveyor said it would need an easy job to install. I contacted Octopus to say it seems a bit expensive compared to other comparable Octopus 4 bed quotes I've seen posted elsewhere. After a few emails they reduced the price by £700, a few days later said there was an offer on so I could get another £500 off, also said to get an install code of the internet for another£ 100 off. I've also managed to get another 2 radiators upgraded in the price. So there is opportunity for discount if you push it. One thing reading on here though I tried to get removed was the buffer/volumiser, but no chance. They say it's part of the system and needs to be installed. I'm just waiting now for confirmation of an install date should I commit. I don't want the middle of winter so hopefully no later than October.

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Toodles

(@toodles)

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12/08/2024 9:58 am

@njt Oh Dear!😩 That's not good news at all! Toodles.

Toodles, heats his home with cold draughts and cooks food with magnets.

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Majordennisbloodnok

(@majordennisbloodnok)

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12/08/2024 10:30 am

Posted by: @njt

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...

Unfortunately Octopus won't fit it on the heat pump install, and Homely say the only sell to installers, so there's the problem.

Not sure if there's a bit of talking at cross purposes going on. You appear to be interpreting that as "Homely will only supply their box to whoever installs your heat pump". My interpretation is "Homely kit needs to be installed by someone professional, so they will only supply to businesses registered as Homely installers".

If I'm right, there would still be no problem since you could get the kit installed after the fact. In practice, I can't see why that would be a problem either since the only physical fun and games is with a bit of modbus wiring and that's not would need to be done when the heat pump is commissioned.

105 m2 bungalow in South East England
Mitsubishi Ecodan 8.5 kW air source heat pump
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Toodles

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12/08/2024 10:41 am

@majordennisbloodnok Installation involves connecting (on the Daikin range anyway) two wires to P1 and P2 within the existing control box / or straight to the heat pump connections. The modbus connects to the Homely controller and there are some switches to be toggled in the modbus itself. Homely provide the details of switch positions and the PSU’s to power the Homely and the modbus itself. There is a configuration programme which you initiate via their app and after some 30 minutes, Homely will start to take over all the control. The modbus I have is a D. Comm unit. Regards, Toodles.

Toodles, heats his home with cold draughts and cooks food with magnets.

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Majordennisbloodnok

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12/08/2024 10:45 am

Posted by: @toodles

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@majordennisbloodnok Installation involves connecting (on the Daikin range anyway) two wires to P1 and P2 within the existing control box / or straight to the heat pump connections. The modbus connects to the Homely controller and there are some switches to be toggled in the modbus itself. Homely provide the details of switch positions and the PSU’s to power the Homely and the modbus itself. There is a configuration programme which you initiate via their app and after some 30 minutes, Homely will start to take over all the control. The modbus I have is a D. Comm unit. Regards, Toodles.

Precisely. Thanks, @toodles, for confirming.

Making use of a physical modbus connection is not unique to Homely and is just an add-on bit of config that can be done at any time after the heat pump's commissioning. As long as @njt can get Homely to put an installer in touch then I see no issues whatever with their kit being installed completely independently from Octopus' work.

"Semper in excretia; sumus solum profundum variat"

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AllyFish

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12/08/2024 10:47 am

Posted by: @njt

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Oh, and they wouldn't entertain doing a system design less then 50 Deg, even though I'd read somewhere someone got a 45 Deg design off them

@NJT, same here with my experience. 50degC design, which at the time I didn't query. But the same set up is now set to 45degC max, and most of the time sits between 35 and 40degC. 50degC does get rather thirsty on the power consumption, but an EPC B home probably won't require it if you run low and slow with all day space heating.

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Toodles

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12/08/2024 10:50 am

And one more thing, my Homely was a retrofit job as the firmware for the Daikin had not been created at time of installation; I had a NeoAir stat just set several degrees higher than required at first and used the heat pump’s parameters to control the heating comfortably. (I’ll own up to some degree of tweaking during this period though 😉) Regards, Toodles.

Toodles, heats his home with cold draughts and cooks food with magnets.

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NJT

(@njt)

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Topic starter 12/08/2024 10:54 am

@allyfish

Thanks.

I'm just waiting for a date now for install, I signed last week.

I'm hoping for what they told me, 4 to 6 weeks. Definitely don't want to be installing winter time.

I'd rather have some time before it gets really cold to get used to everything.

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Anonymous 5011

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12/08/2024 12:09 pm

Posted by: @allyfish

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but an EPC B home probably won't require it

House heat required or EPC rating, is not what defines flow temperature, it's related to radiator size and flow temperature and the combined output in kW.

A bigger heat demand, at the same flow temperature, just requires bigger radiators. A smaller heat demand just gets smaller radiators.

If you design a system for a flow temp of 50, it just means you can get away with smaller radiators instead of big one suitable for the correct heatput at a lower flow temperature.

All heat pumps should be run low and slow. Trouble is when systems are designed for 50 Deg flow temp CoP is poor, doesn't matter is it's an EPC A or F, it's just rubbish.

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