@jamespa, and I would imagine that a boatload more fridges and freezers are dumped in landfill without the refrigerant being properly extracted, which in time might escape into the atmosphere.

Posted by: @editor

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@jamespa, and I would imagine that a boatload more fridges and freezers are dumped in landfill without the refrigerant being properly extracted, which in time might escape into the atmosphere.

Certainly I would say.

And the guy at the local garage who refills the aircon in your car is of course scrupulous in ensuring none escapes, ditto the guy who crushes the car at the end of its lifetime!

@persephone Well I just got in and was about to try and convince you but it seems others have chipped in. From a personal perspective I am using about 1/4 of the energy I used last year to heat my home with a modern combi gas boiler now I have a heat pump. My electricity tariff is 100% green and from the graph you can see that renewables are making up more of the electricity mix year on year. In fact they are the cheapest way of producing electricity.

I was surprised on your comment about solar panels going to landfill as they have a proven useable lifetime of well over 25 years. I can only assume perhaps that people are ditching older systems for newer more efficient systems but that does seem like an awful waste if they are.

My own heat pump is whisper quiet, but I appreciate not all are equal in that regard. I think many on this forum would agreed with you that MCS is not fit for purpose.

@ericdo whatever happened to your saga? Please update us.

@jamespa Not the mention the vast quantities of methane being released from oil refineries and that coming out of the permafrost due to global warming ( which is very scary)

Posted by: @persephone

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MCS and Certification Bodies only investigate complaints made by 'owners' of ASHPs.

Oh don't worry: they don't even do that properly. The chance of getting MCS is act seems about the same as winning the Euromillions lottery.

Posted by: @persephone

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why the Government spend millions of pounds of taxpayers' money on MCS? Why don't they just let people to install ASHPs wherever they want to? Why they spend this much money on a scheme that is not enforceable? 

There are people called lobbyists who convince governments to do things to their clients' advantage more than the public benefit...

Posted by: @persephone

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Finally, I don't even think that ASHPs are green! They generate high and low frequency noise, they have fluorinated gases, and they consume a great amount of electricity most of which is still from fossil flues!

A correctly-working ASHP shouldn't be putting much noise into any living space, an ASHP doesn't necessarily contain fluorinated gases (R-290, R-600A and R-744 aren't fluorinated, to name three), and they consume less fossil fuels than using them for heat, plus there's a way to run them today without fossil fuels, which gas or oil burning almost never do.

How do you heat your home, then?

I struggled a bit reading this. 

If your neighbour raises a noise complaint to the council that's big. They have to declare that if they sell the house (as probably do you) and they won't have done it lightly. You have introduced something into the locality and unless you believe your neighbour is mad or out to get you they are clearly suffering from what you introduced in some way.

Heat pumps are not gas boilers, the noise is not comparable owing to various factors the most prominent of which is tonality (see DESNZ's latest report which validates this well known factor that heat pump noise can be a specific nuisance).

It seems as though the authorities have determined that it breaches.

To me, an annoyed neighbour who is saying it has an affect on their quality of life + the council saying it breaches = move it ASAP. I can't see why anyone would consider any other approach or would string it out in any way. Even if it didn't breach, knowing what we know about MCS020 and how flawed it is, if a neighbour raises an issue about noise and you kind of know its a bit noisy, you move it. 

@persephone can you give us more information pertaining to the air source heat pump noise levels you're suffering from? I have looked at your documents that you emailed me. Are these documents directly related to your complaint? We can keep things general here, but for the benefit of future visitors, could you please explain where the offending heat pump is in relation to your home? 

Posted by: @elton

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If your neighbour raises a noise complaint to the council that's big. They have to declare that if they sell the house (as probably do you) and they won't have done it lightly. You have introduced something into the locality and unless you believe your neighbour is mad or out to get you they are clearly suffering from what you introduced in some way.

There are, sadly, plenty of people out there who will complain about absolutely anything (yet who will selfishly do things themselves which annoy or inconvenience others).  So just because a neighbour complains I wouldn't necessarily say its big.  Personally I would say that its big if

1) you know that there is actually a problem

or

2) the Council investigate and agree that there is a problem

or

3) you know that your neighbour isn't the 'complaining type'

Posted by: @elton

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To me, an annoyed neighbour who is saying it has an affect on their quality of life + the council saying it breaches = move it ASAP. I can't see why anyone would consider any other approach or would string it out in any way. Even if it didn't breach, knowing what we know about MCS020 and how flawed it is, if a neighbour raises an issue about noise and you kind of know its a bit noisy, you move it. 

Unless you are certain, for some reason, that the Council is wrong (which does happen) and your neighbour is being unreasonable (I cant comment on your neighbour, but unreasonable neighbours do occur), I would agree with that! 

Basically this amounts to, if you are doing something wrong, then fix it!

Posted by: @editor

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@ericdo whatever happened to your saga? Please update us.

@editor Thanks for chasing me... 

Following all the lovely advice here, I had 2 companies come and have a look at the possibilities of moving the ASHP. Both said I was mad to spend ~£2500 on 25m of insulated piping, plus expenses for trench digging, and recommissioning. Both recommended significant re plumbing when looking at the plastic piping, UFH zoning and surplus pumps.In the process I learned a load about weather comp and got the LG running more efficiently. i.e. the house was consistently at a comfortable temperature.

Then the council issued a formal planning enforcement notice, along with copies to the mortgage company etc.. It was a proper wakeup call that action and a final solution were needed.

My 12kW LG was totally over specified - constantly cycling above an outdoor temp of ~0 and 5 degrees. I did a manual heat loss survey (and with close review by the installer reckon at about 6.5 - 7)

I got a certificate of lawfulness to say that a new ASHP (a meter away from the LG), and next to my building outside the 1m limit of the fence was ok for permitted development

So fast forward to today... A brand new Vaillant aroTHERM PLUS 5kW is in the process of being installed and my plant room being re plumbed. Should be fully commissioned on Weds.

A very expensive exercise, but hopefully a close to 2 years of stress from my neighbours and an irrational council.

@ericdo wow. Thanks for the update. Super interesting to hear what’s transpired, and equally interesting to see you’ve dropped from a 12kW to a 5kW unit.

Can I ask which council this is?

@ericdo 

That sounds like a good result.

Just one question, did Environmental Health drop their possible action (from what I remember they didn't seem to have a case)?

With a 5kW Vaillant, it's going to be much quieter anyway.