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My not really getting there ASHP installation

LewB · 2021-04-05T13:40:31Z

So I’ve started a new topic as Mars suggested regarding my ASHP install. The title eludes to the notion that trying to get a design and quote from anybody who comes thoroughly recommended is not really happening. Ive had one recommendation from a neighbour who had the company below install at his home but it was an oil fuelled system.I have made mention in “introduce yourself” of some of the experiences and details I’ve encountered so far. The install is entirely dependent on having a property that is sufficiently restored and renovated to accommodate the new system. Time is of the essence if we are to get up and running and make the RHI deadline. Whilst I’ve impressed this on the builder, he seems to have prioritised other work and I am now considering a change of builder. To pick up from where my last thread was as mentioned: @davef Hi, the quote I had was from a local installer(West Coast Lakes think Seascale area). In conjunction with GES supplying pump and tanks etc and a company from Carlisle (THS) providing calculation and design of the UFH and the hardware. The installation quote lacked detail or breakdown of costs of each phase. I asked the installer for a detailed breakdown of the £22k + vat quote. This didn’t include the supply of the pump and tanks. That was a month ago, he’s not been back to me. I didn’t think it was too much to ask for separate detailed estimates for the pump/Tanks/Wiring install and UFH install. This would require him to quote for UFH ground floor and rads first floor throughout and a separate one for UFH ground and first throughout. Some work for him to cost it out but when spending £25k +, I didn’t think it unreasonable. We’re quite keen on the GES Caernarfon system and think it a good fit. I am however looking at Grant. I like the idea of their pumps running R32 and not R410 refrigerants. Their 17Kw unit may not quite be big enough for our project. I’ll be ringing Mawson this week to commence a dialogue and see if they can help. I’ve also got the name of a firm at Windermere who are listed as Grant G1 certified installers. Any thoughts or advise is always welcome

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Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)

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JulianC

(@julianc)

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13/04/2021 10:34 pm

I think it is so the water from the defrost cycle has somewhere to run too. Rather than over a path, freezing and causing a potential hazard. My installer asked the question and will fit a pipe (heated) and run off water will flow into the nearby drain. No soak away required

Daikin Altherma 3H HT 12kWh ASHP with Mixergy h/w cylinder; 4kW solar PV with Solic 200 electric diverter; Honda e and new Hyundai Ioniq 5 N electric vehicles with Myenergi Zappi mk1 charger

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Kev M

(@kev-m)

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14/04/2021 8:10 am

This is an extract:

4.2 Safer design of the condensate discharge

The product contains R290 refrigerant. In the event of a leak, escaping refrigerant may get into the ground via the condensate discharge. The refrigerant must not get into the wastewater system. For the ground installation, the condensate must be discharged via a downpipe into a gravel bed which is located in the frostfree area.

4.3 Safe execution of the condensate discharge,

The downpipe must flow into a sufficiently large gravel bed so that the condensate can trickle away freely. To prevent the condensate from freezing, the heating wire must be threaded into the downpipe via the condensate discharge tundish.
The downpipe must not be connected to an existing underground drain pipe that is connected to the wastewater system.

I assume it's because of the R290 refrigerant, which (courtesy of google) is propane. But this is only in the event of a leak, it would normally be just be water that is discharged?

But don't forget I'm just looking stuff up and don't have any experience of these matters!!

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Mars

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14/04/2021 8:15 am

@julianc, I guess that technically we have a soak away for water to run off into over gravel around the ASHP. To be fair, I've monitored that and it never discharges huge amount of water, but I suppose if it was on a pathway, it could freeze over and become dangerous.

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Mars

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14/04/2021 8:17 am

@kev-m, that's actually really helpful and I never considered the refrigerant. My installers are here today, and I'll ask them about this.

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bobbt9866

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14/04/2021 9:38 am

@kev-m

Never been asked for a soakaway across a wide range of manufacturers over decades.

I have just checked the LG manuals for the Therma V and they are more concerned with fixing the unit to a secure base.

Most manufacturers require a concrete base with the unit mounted on anti vibe mounts with adequate drainage, given the small amount of moisture produced during defrost.

If in doubt, pipe it away.

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Mars

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14/04/2021 9:49 am

I have some clarity about the soak away on the Vaillant units and it's to do with the R290 refrigerant which is propane (and therefore flammable). Vaillant are therefore very strict on their installation criteria with regards to drainage, soak aways and clearances around and above the pumps.

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bobbt9866

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14/04/2021 10:01 am

@kev-m

The best solution, of course, is not to have a leak in the first place!

This is why we insist on FGas registration to ensure that proper procedures are followed.

No gas should enter the system unless you are sure that the system holds a vacuum and passes pressure tests.

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witchcraft

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11/08/2021 10:46 am

@frevillebabe Just had my Vaillant Aerothem Plus installed and as you say no condensate pipe has been provided, distilled water all over the patio. I have just suggested to the installers that they supply a drain pipe on their snagging visit and I will dig the pit

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bobbt9866

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11/08/2021 12:21 pm

@witchcraft The drain pan on the units should have a connection point, one or more, that allow connection of a drain pipe. The units require a strong base to stand on but provision needs to be made for drainage of condensate to a suitable point. It should be part of the site survey at the very least.

I attach a diagram of the LG Therma V base pan showing five drain connection options. they usually come with drain plugs installed to be removed as required.

Drain Pan diagram- LG.docx

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