My view is the heat geeks seem to be revered beyond what is rational. I would imagine their install will be good, but there is no chance it will be 5k better so you’re not getting value for money in my view.

For that you can swap out the actual ASHP and some radiators. or you can run a less efficient heatpump for 15 years. If it was 500-1000, maybe.

but 9kw of heat losses may get you the 9kw daikin - unfortunately quite a lot of bad stories about that specific model (it’s a software downgraded much bigger version). so you should circle back here to check what model they specify in the end.

@pie_eater I agree. We got a heatgeek quote and at that time they were itemising the premium for their SCOP guarantee within the breakdown. I can't remember how much it was, but it was a lot, and we couldn't justify it when the other installers were simply saying that's what they would deliver. They then changed how they'd break down the costs, removing this and absorbing it into the overall quote. It was then just...generally rather expensive across each component of the quote.

We've also previously employed a HG and the work done was definitely not exceptional.

Looking at the 3 quotes again the OP has, the 3rd one seems to be better value to me than HG especially if this includes some decent controls, when taking into account the extra time and effort to upgrade the pipework to try and get the best end result. 

I'd also go with octopus out of the 3 though. Decent reputation for installs, and that is a massive saving.

You might want to give Boxt.co.uk a try. At least for me they had octopus level price, but were able to proceed quite quickly. They also give an upfront flat price, all radiators included. 

Posted by: @chansug

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My boiler has already broken down twice in the last two weeks

Do you know what the issue is?

There might be sufficient expertise here to suggest a solution which could last you a few months until a HP Installer is available.

Remember too that HP Installers are pulling functional gas boilers out of homes on a regular basis.
If your boiler has a problem with a component which isn't safety-related, such as the fan-motor, then a 2nd-hand part is readily available 🙂 

Posted by: @chansug

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I am also trying to get a few quotes to get the radiators upgraded using a local gas engineer to see if it saves some money.

Of course!
That's a sensible approach.

You don't need to wait for the day of the HP installation before you get new radiators.

A local engineer might be open to a low-cost option if you undertook to expose the underfloor pipe runs for him,
and replaced the floor/carpet once he'd finished.

You don't want to be paying the rate of a competent tradesman just to lift floorboards!

@raiph they are not HG installers but have trained with them so not directly linked to them. I contacted them after finding their details through here. 

They quoted around 4k plus for seven rads (for 45c install)but they are happy for me to get my own heating engineer to install for their specifications. 

@adrian thanks for the tip. Will certainly try.

@adrian they are quoting me double of the octopus price possibly as my property is at the cusp of their classification making it older than it is. They are recommend a 12kw vaillant tower which is potentially oversized for my property. Do they change things after heat loss survey?

@transparent different reasons each time and I am not technical. First time it was a sort of metal prong which was warped hence was not catching the flame so the boiler was not firing. My boiler man said he will try to bend it the right way and if it snaps I needed to change that part. But it didn't so that is working well.

Second time it was our own fault. Our guests left shower open in the bathtub upstairs which leaked through some crack into the boiler and shut it down. Our boiler man dried the circuit board with a hairdryer and it is working again. He did not seem to think there was any other major problem. But he said if I was not installing a heat pump, he would have recommended changing the boiler. He said it is good to go for next few months while waiting for the installation but I do worry when is it going to breakdown next. 

About replacing radiators before HP, will bigger radiators affect the functioning of my existing boiler?

Posted by: @chansug

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@adrian they are quoting me double of the octopus price possibly as my property is at the cusp of their classification making it older than it is. They are recommend a 12kw vaillant tower which is potentially oversized for my property. Do they change things after heat loss survey?

you can play around with the answers to get to the right value. Like you I already knew the heat loss so I changed the build year until I got the right answer. I did then call them to verify that that would be ok and they were accommodating. Their price does go up quite quickly when the size of the heat pump changes. The 3.5 and 5 units are just over £3k, then £4.5k for the 7 unit and what you see for the big unit.

@chansug new radiators work well with all boilers, just turn the temperature down on the boiler so you get improved efficiency as a benefit

A 12kW ashp sounds very oversized from what you’ve shared on gas consumption 

@bontwoody Good spot there, yes you are absolutely right, my apologies OP. 

dT should stay consistent but min (crucially max) flow temperature should be dropped as low as possible to maximise efficiency of you system. dT is determined by things like pump speed and system setup.

There are many, many factors that affect how well a heat pump system performs, most of these come down to either mechanical setup or controls/settings. 

If you can nail these, any well-reputed heat pump system will run well. Some manufacturers are regarded as better than others but it is definitely a horses for courses situation. 

There is some very solid advice here, as always. 

Re Heat Geeks, it is one metric of assessing an installer/designer's credentials when it comes to heat pumps but the most important factor is previous recommendations, reviews online and their ability to answer your questions in a way appropriate and understandable to you. I say this as a Heat Geek myself and know fantastic designers/installers who have never touched a HG qualification and some who are under HG and not so competent. It's one measure but not the be all and end all and it's not something I generally feel impacts my clients' decision-making (although I will always answer honestly if they ask!). 

You should feel comfortable with the installer, their treatment and knowledge of their craft and you should never be pressure sold anything. If in doubt take a moment take some time to step back and review all your options and seek advice. 

You should be provided with running cost estimates (and these are estimates only) under MCS and an explanation of your heat loss and how this figure was arrived at. If the installer is using a 3rd party company to design, they may allow you to contact them and discuss the design work but this does depend on the installer. I spent a lot of time in my previous role working with homeowners when the plumber was happy to allow me to answer all the techy questions and design aspects. 

Please let us know if you have any further questions. 

BW

Thanks @transparent All members have been fantastic and helped me immensely  in my HP journey.

I am now chasing @adrian for more information about boxt install using the same Vaillant HP which includes all radiator upgrades for free. Their quote is higher by about 1k more than HG trained installers who are charging me 4k for 45c radiator upgrades (about 7 radiators) or asking me to get my own radiator install done which I know will be more than 2k if I ask my own heating engineer to do it as they charge VAT on top.

As Boxt are charging upfront there is no going back by the sounds of it so need as much info as possible.