Does your heat pump...
 
Notifications
Clear all

Does your heat pump calculate and provide you with a COP figure or do you need additional metering equipment to work out your COP? Poll is created on Nov 27, 2022

  
  

Does your heat pump calculate and provide you with a COP figure?

39 Posts
16 Users
10 Reactions
5,503 Views
Mars
 Mars
(@editor)
Illustrious Member Admin
17018 kWhs
Veteran
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 2341
Topic starter  

How easy is it for you to work out your COP? Does your heat pump offer that information up easily or do you need to jump through hoops?

Buy Bodge Buster – Homeowner Air Source Heat Pump Installation Guide: https://amzn.to/3NVndlU

Follow our sustainability journey at My Home Farm: https://myhomefarm.co.uk


   
Quote
Topic Tags
(@kev-m)
Famed Member Moderator
5561 kWhs
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1299
 

Mitsubishi Ecodan/FTC6

No COP on controller but does give some limited info on energy consumed and delivered so you can calculate it. 

The Melcloud app does give COP but you need the Mitsubishi wireless module.  


   
ReplyQuote
cathodeRay
(@cathoderay)
Famed Member Moderator
6909 kWhs
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1391
 

Midea 14kW with Midea Controller - short answer is no.

If I add the Midea app, I get daily kWh in and kWh out, meaning I can manually (and tediously, the numbers need to be copied manually) calculate daily COPs. The hourly consumption figures are a little suspect, always an integer, and is the daily figures are sums of the hourly figures, errors could accumulate.

More generally, I think it is worth remembering that manufacturers providing COPs, directly or indirectly, are in effect manufacturers marking their own homework.

  

Midea 14kW (for now...) ASHP heating both building and DHW


   
ReplyQuote



Morgan
(@morgan)
Noble Member Member
4052 kWhs
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 540
 

@Kev M

Can you explain how to access that please.  I have Melcloud app and the Mitsubishi wireless 'stat'.

 

Retrofitted 11.2kw Mitsubishi Ecodan to new radiators commissioned November 2021.


   
ReplyQuote
(@kev-m)
Famed Member Moderator
5561 kWhs
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1299
 

Hi @Morgan

The wireless module I mean is the little box that connects to the FTC, not the wireless controller.  I got this when I had MMSP installed (I could have had it with the original install but I declined). In Melcloud I get this:

Screenshot 2022 11 27 13.08.30

On the wired in controller (not the remote wireless one) the button on the right of the row of 4 gets you access to the energy consumed and delivered menus.


   
ReplyQuote
Morgan
(@morgan)
Noble Member Member
4052 kWhs
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 540
 

@kev-m 

I have the little wifi box wired into the FTC that you speak of but I only get this.

Screenshot (13)

Retrofitted 11.2kw Mitsubishi Ecodan to new radiators commissioned November 2021.


   
ReplyQuote
(@hydros)
Estimable Member Member
326 kWhs
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 59
 

We have a Daikin Altherma. It’s doesn’t tell you a COP value. The info it can display is heat energy generated for hot water and heating. It also rather handily displays run time and starts for the compressor. This is only available via the controller, there is no app for this generation of Daikin heat pump. I believe the later gen, Altherma 3 comes with remote access but still displays limited info. Over all not very impressed with the system, still tweaking it after 18 months.

I do have external monitoring to enable me to calculate COP (part of a trial with OVO), whilst I don’t have access to the real-time data I do record the values on the meters and calculate COP myself. The energy generated value on the Daikin is usually very close to that measured by the external monitoring. 


   
ReplyQuote
(@mike-patrick)
Reputable Member Member
1610 kWhs
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 152
 

I think this is a widespread omission for heat pumps in the residential market. Mine's a 6 year old Grant Aerona and there is no way to find this information (other than hooking up additional separate equipment) from the control panel.

The end consumer is generally discouraged from delving into the control panel, although I have done so in order to adjust the weather compensation settings.

I understand that you don't want consumers going into all the settings but they should be able to easily see the performance (COP) on a display and be able to make adjustments to settings such as weather compensation. The ideal values for this can only be determined after running a heat pump over a period of time and seeing what works best for the particular installation. End users shouldn't have to call in a heating engineer every time they need to fine tune these. Many heat pumps show their origins in the industrial/commercial market and have yet to develop into consumer friendly appliances. This hinders their widespread acceptance.

I get quite frustrated when I read posts on this forum saying, "I'm achieving a COP of X....", and I wonder how the user is able to do this when I have no means of determing the figure for my pump. It should be like fuel economy on a car. A figure you can read instantly off a display. Any change in the figure can be an early indicator of a potential problem.

 

Mike

Grant Aerona HPID10 10kWh ASHP


   
ReplyQuote
 robl
(@robl)
Reputable Member Member
2313 kWhs
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 180
 

Totally agree, COP should be the headline information when looking at how the heatpump is performing.  It is hard to measure accurately though - for hard, read a little bit expensive.  Perhaps the manufacturers skimp on sensors, and don't want to display prominently information that is suspect?  For my own diy heatpump, I spent £40 on sensors to allow COP to be calculated using +/-0.1C temperature sensors that have to be carefully positioned - that and the flow rate limit the accuracy of the heat measured.  Electricity is easy in comparison - we have an off the shelf 1% accurate meter, which outputs pulses.  Rolling the errors together, a reported cop of 4.0 could be 3.8 or 4.2.  It is brilliant as a "everything is alright" indicator that I look at every now and then.


   
Mars reacted
ReplyQuote



(@batalto)
Famed Member Member
3655 kWhs
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1091
 

I use my COP figures as a broad brush and they do show what would be expected - lower flow temps and warmer days are more efficient. I am not sure what people want from a COP daily though. Its fine, but what are you going to do? The only way to be more efficient is to run at lower flow temps - that's it. So lower your flow temps until the house is just right and there really isn't anything else you can do. Or am I missing something?

12kW Midea ASHP - 8.4kw solar - 29kWh batteries
262m2 house in Hampshire
Current weather compensation: 47@-2 and 31@17
My current performance can be found - HERE
Heat pump calculator spreadsheet - HERE


   
ReplyQuote
(@kev-m)
Famed Member Moderator
5561 kWhs
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1299
 

Posted by: @morgan

@kev-m 

I have the little wifi box wired into the FTC that you speak of but I only get this.

Screenshot (13)

I think you need MMSP or similar to get the COP.  Does it show you energy delivered or just consumed?

 


   
ReplyQuote
(@kev-m)
Famed Member Moderator
5561 kWhs
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1299
 

Posted by: @batalto

I use my COP figures as a broad brush and they do show what would be expected - lower flow temps and warmer days are more efficient. I am not sure what people want from a COP daily though. Its fine, but what are you going to do? The only way to be more efficient is to run at lower flow temps - that's it. So lower your flow temps until the house is just right and there really isn't anything else you can do. Or am I missing something?

There are people who record every gallon of petrol they use and mpg for each tankful, with tables and graphs going back years.  These folks will want to know daily COP, nothing less will do. 

 

It's useful to know as an indication of anything going wrong I suppose?

 

 

This post was modified 1 year ago by Kev M

   
ReplyQuote
Page 1 / 4



Share:

Join Us!

Latest Posts

Heat Pump Humour

Members Online

x  Powerful Protection for WordPress, from Shield Security
This Site Is Protected By
Shield Security