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Daikin Altherma ERLQ004CAV3 ASHP – Help!

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(@harleecooper)
Active Member Member
40 kWhs
Joined: 4 months ago
Posts: 3
Topic starter  

Hi, I really hope some of you guys may be able to help me, I recently moved in to a 2 bed 2 storey end of terrace house that came fitted with a Daikin Altherma ERLQ004CAV3 ASHP.

When I was in my previous 3 bed property we had a valiant combi boiler so my knowledge with ASHP is non existent I have never used one but we were averaging  £4 electric a day, The previous Tennant's we're not so helpful in explaining how the system works and left no manuals or instructions. We have at times put the heating one once we could figure out the thermostat and used the shower every other day. I looked at my energy bill a few days ago and saw it was using roughly £10 + a day to me this seems exceptionally high for a 2 bed house with 2 adults and occasionally our children/adults come for a shower now and again.

The house is constantly cold because I don't want to run the thing, for January we have used 1038 kWh of electricity I have spent the last 3 days looking through Google and YouTube trying to find out how to operate the pump efficiently but it feels like you need a degree in astrophysics to understand setting them up.

I should also mention that the house is a "new" build and has no UFH 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


   
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(@allyfish)
Noble Member Contributor
3142 kWhs
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 381
 

Hi @harleecooper, you'll get some help here. But it may be well worth getting in an expert in renewable heating to look at the system set up and commissioning. You'll need to pay for that, but it could save you a small fortune. Your problems will probably be with the system side of the heat pump - the controls, thermostats, settings, etc., and how it is being run, not the heat pump itself.

A few things to consider if you are new to heat pumps...

It's a different method of heating - 'low and slow'. The system needs to be on for a significant part of the day, perhaps 16hrs and set back or off overnight. They work best when chugging away constantly. It will regulate and modulate when run like that. Operating them in short bursts from cold, like a gas boiler, is very inefficient, as the ASHP has to run flat out whenever it is on. It'll be consuming a lot of electricity that way. Also, it's not sized to deliver huge amounts of heat quickly, like a gas boiler can, so running them that way usually leaves your house cold.

Unlike gas boilers, heat pump efficiency is outdoor temperature dependent,  A boiler's efficiency is constant whether it is +10degC outside or -5degC. (Your heating costs more either way when colder, as your house loses more heat when it is colder). An air source heat pump will consume more electricity and be less efficient when it's colder outside, it's just the laws of physics. So on the down side, the months of Dec, Jan & Feb are expensive, getting on for half your annual space heating bill, On the plus side, in the milder months, ASHPs are very efficient and cost very little to run. The average over a year will be less on a properly functioning ASHP system in a new house than a gas boiler would cost. Over the year you save, but you have a massive increase in electricity consumption during the coldest few months. That often alarms people new to the technology. Not a bad idea to set a direct debit that accumulates credit in the summer sufficient to cover this in the winter, to cushion yourself from a sudden and very large increase in monthly bill.

If you have a smart meter, consider a tariff that has lower periods in the day when you may need to have the heating on or be generating hot water, eg: Cosy Octopus.

Hard to put a figure on what your electricity is costing without knowing what your annual consumption is, and how that squares with a typical 2 bed house. £10 a day is high, that's our worst-case with a 4 bed EPC-C detached house on a tariff averaging £0.20/kWh when we might expect to consume up to 50kWh in a day for everything, heat, light, hot water, cooking. (All-electric house.) You should not really be consuming more than 25kWh a day at worst if all is working properly & efficiently.

Without getting into too much technical detail, some of the common problems with ASHPs are them not being set up with weather compensation, (all can be, this is often overlooked during commissioning), ASHPs running off a room thermostat that is switching the ASHP on and off several times an hour (inefficient - but easy fixed by enabling weather compensation and balancing the system, which largely makes the room thermostat unnecessary), and overly complicated heating circuits with zone controls, buffer tanks, headers, multiple pumps etc. (These are more involved to fix as they may require modification to put things right and simplify the system)

This post was modified 4 months ago by AllyFish

   
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(@derek-m)
Illustrious Member Moderator
13765 kWhs
Veteran Expert
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 4169
 

Posted by: @harleecooper

Hi, I really hope some of you guys may be able to help me, I recently moved in to a 2 bed 2 storey end of terrace house that came fitted with a Daikin Altherma ERLQ004CAV3 ASHP.

When I was in my previous 3 bed property we had a valiant combi boiler so my knowledge with ASHP is non existent I have never used one but we were averaging  £4 electric a day, The previous Tennant's we're not so helpful in explaining how the system works and left no manuals or instructions. We have at times put the heating one once we could figure out the thermostat and used the shower every other day. I looked at my energy bill a few days ago and saw it was using roughly £10 + a day to me this seems exceptionally high for a 2 bed house with 2 adults and occasionally our children/adults come for a shower now and again.

The house is constantly cold because I don't want to run the thing, for January we have used 1038 kWh of electricity I have spent the last 3 days looking through Google and YouTube trying to find out how to operate the pump efficiently but it feels like you need a degree in astrophysics to understand setting them up.

I should also mention that the house is a "new" build and has no UFH 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

In the first instance I would suggest that you get the model numbers from all the equipment within your heating system, then Google to find the relevant installation and operating manuals, though these should have been included in the handover pack when you purchased the property.

Once you have copies of the manuals, the forum members will be able to guide you through the various steps needed to get your heating system working in a more efficient and effective manner.

 


   
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(@harleecooper)
Active Member Member
40 kWhs
Joined: 4 months ago
Posts: 3
Topic starter  

@allyfish  Thank you so much for your response. 

After doing some research I have seen weather compensation mentioned a lot especially from a guy on YouTube called Heat Geek I believe, I did check on the "the boiler" (even though I know it has a different name) control panel and it is not set to weather dependant it is set to fixed. I'm assuming that it being set like that is going to be one of the reasons for high costs when heating the home.

But also the DHW is set to fixed and I think it just reheats it constantly rather than being scheduled again something I am assuming will use more electricity.

 

I am trying to get an engineer to visit because sadly I don't own the property it is rented from an association, as soon as my utility bill came in we tried to contact them and never got a response the phone lines were busy so we tried online this is day 2 of waiting to hear back.

I took a look at how it is setup and we have the ASHP outside on a concrete plinth, inside the living room in a cupboard is the Hydrobox I think it's called or "boiler" then upstairs in the airing cupboard is a Daikin 150ltr tank and what looks to me like 2 small propane tanks connected to the system. There is also an immersion heater switch that is in the on position in that cupboard which to me is concerning 

The Hydrobox I have no clue what the model is because there is no sticker on it whatsoever but in that cupboard with that box are isolator switches for : Backup Heater, HydroBox and a fan sorry hopefully this explains the system better.


 


   
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(@harleecooper)
Active Member Member
40 kWhs
Joined: 4 months ago
Posts: 3
Topic starter  

@derek-m  thank you for your reply, so the house was exchanged with another family through the association, so when we came here there was no documentation sadly.

I have found the model number for the pump outside but I could not find a number for the Hydrobox there was however a model number on the hot water tank.

 

 


   
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(@iancalderbank)
Noble Member Contributor
3640 kWhs
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 644
 

@harleecooper if you have the model number, please google it and find the manual. post it on here as well, there may be someone who has one who can directly help you out.

post photos of any control panels that you have and what they are showing. and all your airing cupboard bits. the small tanks are highly unlikely to be propane, educated guess they will be tanks containing compressed nitrogen which are there to absorb expansion in the system when it warms up. Photos will confirm.

if an immersion is permanently on that will be costing you a lot of money. Is there a wall isolator wired directly to the immersion heater? the obvious thing to do would be to switch that off, at least temporarily. If the ASHP has been setup correctly it should have the means of heating up the water with the ASHP, which is more efficient than the immersion, what you want is for that to take over from the immersion, so see if you can find hot water settings in the ASHP control panel.  It is usually better to schedule this, if it has that capability.

as for the flow temperature on the system, Heat Geek is a great source for educating yourself. In simple terms: you lower the temperature of the ASHP water the warmer it is outside, the reverse when colder. You can experiment with this, if your system is in fixed mode, reduce the fixed temperature. In mild weather you should be aiming for less than 40 . The exact value will depend on your system a lot, but its normal to have a low end warm weather of 30-something and a high end cold weather of 40 something. If to stay warm you have to run in the cold weather in the upper 40's or 50's then so be it but it will cost more. Then once you have found the temperature at which your house "just about stays warm", that gives you an idea of where to set the weather compensation,

My octopus signup link https://share.octopus.energy/ebony-deer-230
210m2 house, Samsung 16kw Gen6 ASHP Self installed: Single circulation loop , PWM modulating pump.
My public ASHP stats: https://heatpumpmonitor.org/system/view?id=45
11.9kWp of PV
41kWh of Battery storage (3x Powerwall 2)
2x BEVs


   
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