Advice on ASHP choice needed
Posted by: @derek-mIt should also be noted that the actual heat loss of bedrooms can be lower than the calculated value, due to heat rising and solar gain through the roof.
Excellent observation @derek-m, modern well insulated homes with low infiltration/exfiltration AC/h values tend to suffer from overheating upstairs. This is due to simple physics with warm air being less dense and rising in the heating season. Modern lifestyle factors compound this, such as increasing preference for open plan living and larger hallways, stairs and landings, or atriums, where warm air can easily rise.
Non-scientific estimations by myself seem to show the upstairs of uniformly heated two storey dwellings can be 2degC warmer than downstairs. We can usually turn down heat output upstairs, but what if there's a heating capacity shortfall downstairs, or the downstairs emitters have not been sized to compensate for heat energy migration to other spaces? This isn't considered in any room by room heat loss sizing calculation software that I'm aware of. They all assume closed rooms/zones.
Maybe we should flip our home layouts upside for better thermal comfort, with living spaces upstairs and sleeping rooms downstairs?! 😉
I can’t help but feel a simple solution could be to design houses once again with stairs that are hidden behind a door so the whole of th upstairs can be easily isolated. Failing that, of course, the really low-tech solution of keeping all upstairs doors closed so only the landing overheats.
I’m well aware there are many homes where my generalisations wouldn’t work, of course.
105 m2 bungalow in South East England
Mitsubishi Ecodan 8.5 kW air source heat pump
18 x 360W solar panels
1 x 6 kW GroWatt battery and SPH5000 inverter
1 x Myenergi Zappi
1 x VW ID3
Raised beds for home-grown veg and chickens for eggs
"Semper in excretia; sumus solum profundum variat"
@majordennisbloodnok Aha Bloodnock! I have a sneaky plan, Eccles, put the upstairs in the basement!😉 Toodles.
Toodles, heats his home with cold draughts and cooks food with magnets.
Posted by: @toodles@majordennisbloodnok Aha Bloodnock! I have a sneaky plan, Eccles, put the upstairs in the basement!😉 Toodles.
Our last house it was, coolest and most stable temperature summer and winter room in the house, very quiet also. The upstairs was left for guests, way to warm in the summer.
@johnmo I suppose that gave them a ‘warm welcome’ 😉
There’s something to be said for ‘living’ upstairs in the heated environment and retiring to the lower level to sleep. Anyone carried out an analysis of energy consumption with such an arrangement? Regards, Toodles.
Toodles, heats his home with cold draughts and cooks food with magnets.
Posted by: @AnonymousPosted by: @majordennisbloodnokcould be to design houses once again
Without an upstairs?
He, he.
You got me rereading what I posted. Fortunately, I did say “once again with…” so there was a qualifying part to the sentence.
Houses certainly often used to hide stairs behind doors, probably so the occupants could heat rooms separately rather than the whole house at a time. I can’t see a good reason for not moving back to that compartmental design.
105 m2 bungalow in South East England
Mitsubishi Ecodan 8.5 kW air source heat pump
18 x 360W solar panels
1 x 6 kW GroWatt battery and SPH5000 inverter
1 x Myenergi Zappi
1 x VW ID3
Raised beds for home-grown veg and chickens for eggs
"Semper in excretia; sumus solum profundum variat"
Posted by: @majordennisbloodnokHouses certainly often used to hide stairs behind doors, probably so the occupants could heat rooms separately rather than the whole house at a time. I can’t see a good reason for not moving back to that compartmental design.
Houses used to have almost no insulation, so compartmentalising made a big difference. For well insulated houses the difference is smaller, because the thermal conductivity between rooms is much greater than the thermal conductivity between the inside and the outside.
4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.
Agreed, @jamespa, and understood. However, since an issue related to open plan design has been mentioned I would suggest there is still a place for designing in the option to compartmentalise even if that choice is rarely used and the doors are left open. In fairness there may well be fire safety benefits as well, so I stand by my earlier statement; I can’t see a good argument for avoiding that sort of design.
105 m2 bungalow in South East England
Mitsubishi Ecodan 8.5 kW air source heat pump
18 x 360W solar panels
1 x 6 kW GroWatt battery and SPH5000 inverter
1 x Myenergi Zappi
1 x VW ID3
Raised beds for home-grown veg and chickens for eggs
"Semper in excretia; sumus solum profundum variat"
Posted by: @majordennisbloodnokAgreed, @jamespa, and understood. However, since an issue related to open plan design has been mentioned I would suggest there is still a place for designing in the option to compartmentalise even if that choice is rarely used and the doors are left open. In fairness there may well be fire safety benefits as well, so I stand by my earlier statement; I can’t see a good argument for avoiding that sort of design.
Fair enough and I agree that a closed staircase would reduce hot air rising, although I suspect that convection downstairs together with transmission through an uninsulated ceiling/floor would still convey a lot of heat to the upstairs. Nevertheless it will doubtless have an effect (and you could insulate the floor/ceiling void). Also, as you say, if its fire resistant will also aid with fire compartmentalisation. So from a purely technical function perspective I wouldn't dispute that there is no good reason to avoid this design style.
Of course houses are for living in as well, and many people prefer fairly (or almost completely) open plan. That said, fashion has probably made this more popular than its due and fashions have a habit of reversing!
4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.
You do realise that by having more doors, it means that there are more doors that your wife can slam in your face. 😋
Posted by: @derek-mYou do realise that by having more doors, it means that there are more doors that your wife can slam in your face. 😋
😁
After more than a quarter of a century married, she’s more than inventive enough already if the situation calls (and I have deserved it on occasion). Another door or two would only serve to reduce the volume; silver linings and all that…
105 m2 bungalow in South East England
Mitsubishi Ecodan 8.5 kW air source heat pump
18 x 360W solar panels
1 x 6 kW GroWatt battery and SPH5000 inverter
1 x Myenergi Zappi
1 x VW ID3
Raised beds for home-grown veg and chickens for eggs
"Semper in excretia; sumus solum profundum variat"
- 26 Forums
- 2,238 Topics
- 49.8 K Posts
- 218 Online
- 5,900 Members
Join Us!
Podcast Picks
Latest Posts
-
RE: DESNZ doing a survey which asks the right questions!
@jamespa but is MCS capable of knowing the difference b...
By Judith , 6 hours ago
-
RE: Solar inverters - where does the energy go when clipping?
Since the combination of fitting plus scaffolding makes...
By Judith , 7 hours ago
-
RE: Designing my house system with a mix of air to air and air to water
@jamespa Cheers James, it's great reading. In quite a f...
By pipebaron , 7 hours ago
-
RE: PV Panels on roof in Conservation Area
If there is any way you can determine daily oil consump...
By JamesPa , 7 hours ago
-
RE: Octopus Cosy Heat Pump Owners & Discussion Thread
@editor The Good: How efficient have you fou...
By wreckguru , 8 hours ago
-
RE: My experience with 3 heat pump surveys: Heat Geek, British Gas & Octopus
Good plan and pretty much what I did in the end (there ...
By JamesPa , 9 hours ago
-
RE: Grant 13kW Aerona3 - issues getting zones to temp
attached is prelagged in case indicates anything. &nb...
By Crimson , 11 hours ago
-
RE: The Hidden Secret to a Successful Heat Pump: Pipe Size Matters
The more we learn about about an ASHP potentially repla...
By colinc , 11 hours ago
-
RE: Solis S6-EH1P8K-L-PLUS – Why I Chose It and What I’ve Learned So Far
Via the cloud and via the online, similar data is shown...
By Batpred , 14 hours ago
-
@old_scientist yes. No E911 error. Very odd. Thanks for...
By bontwoody , 16 hours ago
-
RE: Incorrect Billing of Customers with a Smart Meter
How odd @korwraith - that functionality being offered ...
By Transparent , 17 hours ago
-
This is what I do, but I have a very simple economy 7 l...
By JamesPa , 20 hours ago
-
RE: Master & Slave Zones/Setback
Re outdoor probes can be added from the ones attached t...
By bretix , 21 hours ago
-
RE: Octopus Cosy & Octopus EV + bidirectional smart tariff, together. What, eh?
Thanks for sharing this, it is clearly disappointing, B...
By Batpred , 1 day ago
-
I'm seriously considering an air to air A2A multi-split...
By springswood , 1 day ago
-
RE: Effect of Mitsu PAR WT60 Wireless Controller
@sunandair We were not present to do a tidy changeover ...
By DavidAlgarve , 2 days ago
-
I’m frankly amazed you think anything I have posted on ...
By Majordennisbloodnok , 2 days ago
-
RE: Replacing knackered oil boiler with Samsung ASHP - Perthshire
Thanks for your full reply @mike-h. It certainly cleare...
By DowallyDrifter , 2 days ago
-
RE: Daikin Octopus installation update - I saw my first defrost. 😍😂
I don't seem to have a mixer valve. Just pressure regul...
By Jancold , 2 days ago


