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How To Deal With a Heat Pump Nightmare

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Mars
 Mars
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We discuss the short fallings of MCS, consumer codes and certification bodies in protecting homeowners from subpar heat pump installations. 

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This topic was modified 1 month ago by Mars

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(@iantelescope)
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Sorry All, but after 25 months of complaints the NIC says of my "installation"

"You are NOT Going to like this ............But"

"Nothing can be done". ( NIC "officer" in a recent  Telephone call, announcing "yet more "Sanctions against my "installer"  )

My "installer" has been "STUCK OFF " from NIC/MCS registration THREE Times!.

The MCS in their wisdom re-installed my "installer" TWICE during the last two Years, presumably because of the loss of "the annual Registration fees  paid by my , now former "installer".

The RECC, formerly independent ,  has now been "absorbed into " the MCS , joining the NIC-EIC in forming a triumvirate of "Charities".!!

Why "Charities " you may ask ?. Back comes the reply "that the MCS is a "Charity" because of it's Educational activities!" ( An MCS officer in another Telephone call!".

What "Educational Activities" ..........why Educating the general public about "Global Warming and Energy conservation!

The MCS "is a quality assurance scheme, currently owned by the Department of Energy and Climate Change (DECC) but soon to become a stand alone company.

This post was modified 1 month ago by Mars

   
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(@derek-m)
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My first question would be how do these companies obtain accreditation in the first place.

Some of the complainers on RHH unfortunately do not heed the advice provided, but would rather just complain.

 

This post was modified 1 month ago by Mars

   
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Mars
 Mars
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Posted by: @derek-m

My first question would be how do these companies obtain accreditation in the first place.

This has been something I’ve been looking into, and frankly it makes my head hurt, which I’ve tried to cover here: https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/why-your-mcs-certified-installer-might-not-be-as-competent-as-you-think

Buy Bodge Buster – Homeowner Air Source Heat Pump Installation Guide: https://amzn.to/3NVndlU

Follow our sustainability journey at My Home Farm: https://myhomefarm.co.uk


   
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(@iantelescope)
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My "installation" has the same symptoms  as that described in the "Skill-builder Channel " on You tube.

The Heat Pump User on Skill-builder has replaced , or removed, virtually the entire system.

The Heat -Geek Re-installer has:

1) Replaced the LG Heat Pump with a 12 Kw Valliant.

2) Removed a secondary Pump .

3) Removed a 50 Litre Buffer Tank.

4) Upgraded some  water pipes to 28 mm.

Given that I have spent some £14000 on my Heat Pump, I can spend no more!

I am still forced to Pay £42 per month for an "installation" that has a Winter COP of 2.8 when the price of Electrical Energy is FOUR Times that of GAS Energy.!

Given that I have NO-Confidence in either my, now former  "installer" , the NIC or the MCS  I am Fed Up with Heat Pumps.!!

The NIC have said that  "Regrettably .... You are not going to like this............

but, given that we have applied multiple Sanctions to  your 'Installer' ......Nothing Can be DONE.!!"

Given the number of on-line complaints about the efficiency , Stability and installation fiascos of Heat Pumps .......... I am certainly Not Alone!

I am , in Winter, cold, rboke and scunnered with "Heat Pumps & this "Industry"  !!

This post was modified 1 month ago by Mars

   
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(@iantelescope)
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The Skill Builder Site is now showing the results of a Complete replacement of a Faulty Heat Pump Installation.

The SCOP has been increased to circa 3.99 , a dramatic improvement!

With evidence of such improvement , confidence in the re-installer, HEAT GEEK will soar!

Unfortunately, I will be unable to use HEAT GEEK given the ever greater costs of a complete re-build.

Even , if I could afford the re-installation I would still be forced to pay for the old "installation".

All this shows that Heat Pumps CAN be repaired with experienced and knowledgeable people, if you can afford them!

The RE-installation involved the complete replacement of the Heat Pump itself , with a large number of improvements , upgrades and replacements!

Again, HEAT GEEK are inundated with customers who have badly installed , badly designed , unstable, inefficient and costly Heat Pumps.

It CAN be Done, you can get a workable Heat Pump!

This post was modified 1 month ago by Mars

   
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(@iantelescope)
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Following a recent visit by a NIC Engineer could I make the following observations concerning metering.

RHI and Metering

My Heat Pump was originally "designed", and costed , with a £500 Water Meter to provide evidence of the performance of my Heat Pump for RHI.

With the demise of RHI the requirement for a Water Meter was withdrawn.

NIC and Metering

I fitted a Water meter at the start of the Radiator circuit in July 2023.

The NIC "engineer" maintained that the withdrawal of RHI implied that No Water Meter "should be fitted to my Heat Pump".

The NIC "Engineer" , with two "Engineers" from my then "installer", said that my Heat Pump would be repaired and replaced if.......

I agreed to the removal of ALL Metering!

My Metering

I refused to accept Any upgrade or Replacement Heat Pump , Tank and Buffer that involved the removal of my extensive Heat Pump metering!

Quotes about metering

I was reminded of Einstein's famous quip that "the notion that the Moon only exists if I am Looking at it , is absurd!".

 

or of another , probably Scots, quote that " if ye cannae measure it , ye don't understand it!"

 

or A Quote from a Visiting French Samsung engineer that " Only the German's Really understand Heat Pumps"

This post was modified 1 month ago by Mars

   
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(@iantelescope)
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Wall Conductivity Scam

The Following Power consumption estimate was Initially produced by my "Installer" to justify the "installation of a 6.5 Kw Heat Pump!

Before 91

Note the Estimated power required , and , note the Room Wall Conductivity used.

The Following Power consumption estimate was  produced four months after the "installation " to justify the "installation " of a 5 Kw Heat Pump.

After 91

Warning !.........Some "installers" are  " modifying Wall Thermal conductances , U to justify the "installation " of the Wrong Power of Heat Pump!!

My "Installer" was STRUCK-OFF for the Third time because of this "mistake".

This post was modified 1 month ago by Mars

   
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(@iantelescope)
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COP, SCOP and the REAL Coefficient of Performance ?

My Heat Pump was originally to be fitted with a Water Heat Meter at a cost of £500 for the RHI program.

The RHI being stopped in 2022 , resulted in the withdrawal of my Water Meter.

The RHI Water meter was to  have been positioned at the start of the Radiator Circuit measuring the Actual Power , Water Temperature Out and Return.

I later fitted my own "Sharky" Water Power Meter to measure the ACTUAL POWER and WATER TEMPERATURES at the beginning of the Radiator circuit.

Th following shows the ACTUAL COP from my Water Meter in comparison to the COP as measured by My SAMSUNG Heat Pump.

COP REAL COP 11 03 24

Notice the difference !!

My Average ACTUAL COP is 2.17 for 2024 compared to a Samsung Displayed COP of 2.86!!

Conclusion:

To get the ACTUAL REAL COP use a Power Water Meter!!

This post was modified 1 month ago by Mars

   
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(@iantelescope)
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What is my REAL Water Temperature ?

 

My Heat Pump system was "designed" at a Specified Water Temperature of 50 C.

 

If I  set the Front panel controls on my Samsung Heat Pump  to 50 C  the Radiators should be heated with water at 50 C ?

 

My Front panel Temperature has NEVER achieved a Water Temperature of 50 C , with a maximum *  of 47.5 C !

 

My Water Power Meter displays a Maximum Temperature of 42 C ,( 43 -41 )/2 C.

 

My Living Room  Radiator shows the Maximum  Input Temperature to be 32 C , ( 34-31)/2 C.

 

At 32 C my Stelrad Living room Radiator has a multiplication factor of X 0.63 at 32 C.

 

The Stelrad has a power rating of 2156 Watts @ 50 C, when, operating at a factor of 0.63 , the power will be 1466 Watts.

 

"Designed" with no allowance made for a Heat Exchanger between the Heat Pump and the Radiator circuits , these Specifications and measurements are all but meaningless!

 

* Absolute maximum set with the Water Law Thermostat graph set to an Water Temperature of 50 C with an outdoor Temperature of -5 C and A Water Law Thermostat Offset of +5 C.

 

 

ian

 

"The King is in the Altogether "......................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


   
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Morgan
(@morgan)
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@iantelescope

Deleted.  Ignore me until I learn to read a post properly before replying.

Retrofitted 11.2kw Mitsubishi Ecodan to new radiators commissioned November 2021.


   
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Toodles
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@iantelescope The usual arrangement is that DHW heating is carried out by the heat pump as a separated task whilst space heating is not in use; this is achieved by boosting the flow temperature of the water passing through the hot water tank mechanism - I think the usual setting is a few degrees above the desired DHW temperature. An occasional anti-legionella cycle is run with the aid of a supplementary heater (usually an immersion heater in the tank) to raise the water temperature to approx. 60 degrees. Though during the DHW heating cycles, the space heating is not running (a diverter valve is usually employed to do this) 9nce complete, the space heating may continue which would be at the temperature programmed for the purpose. (Usually, this will be somewhat lower than 50 degrees to ensure a better COP. Regards, Toodles.

Toodles, 76 years young and hoping to see 100 and make some ROI on my renewable energy investment!


   
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