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Octopus (the grid) is my battery

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Toodles
(@toodles)
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5468 kWhs
Joined: 2 years ago
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@allyfish very expensive principles! I pestered my then suppliers (N-Power) to have a smart meter installed and had to wait a few years before it was available to us. It was a SMETS1 so when N-Power passed us on (their idea, not ours!) to Eon Next, the meter became troublesome. They eventually admitted to a problem and said they would carry out an on-line system update. We transferred to OE not long after this and they still have problems now and again. Foe all that Agile is the tariff for us! Regards, Toodles.

 

Toodles, 76 years young and hoping to see 100 and make some ROI on my renewable energy investment!


   
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Transparent
(@transparent)
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Posts: 1392
 

Posted by: @allyfish

said it was a couple of half hourly readings missing. I can't see why they don't have an algorithm that just averages a value for the missing data from the readings either side if the meter doesn't give up the data after several pinged requests.

I have recently posted a series of explanations regarding 'missing readings' over on the topic about Smart Meter Installation... potential nightmare.

The particular example we discussed there was related to the use of a Smart Gas Meter (GSME), but the logic also applies to missing readings from Electricity Meters (ESME).

@allyfish  - you're heading in the right direction. The issue is not the Smart Meters themselves, but rather the deficiencies within the Billing Software used by each Energy Supplier. Octopus developed their own billing software called Kraken. OVO's software is Orion, and is developed by their sister-company, Kaluza.

Since OVO have their own online forum, there are lots of discussions there regarding billing issues with Orion, which anyone to read.
I'd suggest starting with "I think my meter is clocking too fast"
or possibly "Big discrepancy between the usage graphs and meter readings."

I used to contribute extensively on that OVO Forum, particularly on Smart Meter technology, and I'd suggest you should regard posts there by Simon1D as authoritative.
He and I did a large amount of investigation which isn't reflected in the open Forum, but was within a Closed Section where OVO/Kaluza staff were more free to respond.

Unlike most consumers, I have had the opportunity to discuss erroneous billing at Director level.
Regrettably, staff did not comply with all that they were requested to do by their own CEO 😫 

Latterly I have also filed submissions on such errors with the Commons Select Committee on Energy Security and Net Zero.
Those submissions were accepted and published by Parliament.

 

In general, the billing software (of several companies) lacks the capability to cope with data which it doesn't expect.
But consumers tend to report these bugs/oversights as Smart Meter Errors, which they're not.

Even if a consumer has had installed a Smart Meter which has never received a request to retrieve usage data, it remains the case that the Billing Software should be able to provide correct bills!

My MP requested responses from Ministers at DESNZ, and has forwarded technical documents to them which I carefully compiled.
However, it remains the case that the nature of the 'complaint' is too often misunderstood by Ministers and staff within DESNZ.
They too readily jump to the incorrect conclusion that the argument is about Smart Meters themselves, rather than the way in which that data is handled by Energy Suppliers.

DESNZ quoteB

That response not only assumes that my MP and I are presenting a catalogue of errors with the Smart Meters themselves, but is a long way short of the painstaking detail which I put into identifying what is actually going wrong.

If the Errors/Deficiencies are going to be corrected, then we all need to stick to phraseology which states this to be seen as the fault of Billing System Software.

Save energy... recycle electrons!


   
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(@allyfish)
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@transparent thank you, very informative. When time permits I’ll research the subject matter deeper.

I received an Email today from OE to my 3rd bill chaser Email. In summary it stated:

They are unable to reconcile a complete month of billing: 12/01/24 to 10/02/24 on Cosy tariff due to missing data. OE were proposing to bill me the entire month’s consumption of 1130kWh at the variable price cap standard tariff of 27.8p/kWh. I have BESS and charge at lowest rate tariff periods, so my average cost is around 17.5p/kWh. If OE applied the standard variable rate tariff for the complete month they would be overcharging me by around £113. I rejected that proposal out of hand. I know my total consumption during the billing period, but not the breakdown across the low, standard & high tariff periods. Historically however, my consumption on OE Cosy has been consistently 85% low, 10% standard and 5% high, so I can estimate to a reasonable accuracy what my bill should be for the period in question.

Watch this space for updates!


   
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(@pressure)
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94 kWhs
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 6
 

I don't have a battery yet, but with an ASHP / high consumption and Agile Octopus, there's quite a strong business case with a 5 to 7 year payback depending on which battery option. Trying to work out which battery to go for - Givenergy AIO is on top ATM. 


   
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Transparent
(@transparent)
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Will you be manually setting up the schedule for charging from the grid @pressure ?

Or has GivEnergy inserted Octopus' API within their control software to automatically pick up the price-bands on Agile?

Save energy... recycle electrons!


   
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(@misterb)
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Posted by: @pressure

I don't have a battery yet, but with an ASHP / high consumption and Agile Octopus, there's quite a strong business case with a 5 to 7 year payback depending on which battery option. Trying to work out which battery to go for - Givenergy AIO is on top ATM. 

 

The Givenergy AIO looks pretty good, but you could achieve the same thing at less cost if you went for a Fogstar battery and a different inverter - so your 'payback' would be a lot quicker ... their own branded battery and a decent inverter would prob cost you around £4k ..... of course there are installation costs, but they would be incurred anyway. 

you could save even more by assembling your own battery, there are quite a few to choose from, its often referred to as building your own battery, but the truth is, it all comes in kit form, so youre just assembling it - will take around three hours .... as for building your own, in my mind. that really refers to buying cells, a BMS, making some sort of case to out it all in etc which the early adopters of home batteries had no option but to do, its a lot simpler for those of us now following in their footsteps !

 


   
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(@allyfish)
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 379
 

Octopus got back.... eventually.... today. For the period 12/01/24 to 10/02/24 they have billed me £313.18 based on their standard flexible tariff for our region. They have then refunded £115 'as a goodwill gesture'.

I took great issue with the 'goodwill gesture' statement. That is not goodwill. That is a reimbursement of an overbilling error on their part, by billing me 1101kWh consumption to the standard flexible tariff rather than the Cosy tariff I was signed up to at the time. Had I not got in contact they would simply have over-billed me £115 because they are missing some smart meter data for the billing period in question. That's their error, not mine.

I explained to them why I thought they were proposing to over-charge me by around £113 (my calculation)....

My consumption is very much weighted to low tariff periods, formerly on Cosy, and the same currently with Agile. I have a battery energy storage system, (BESS) at home, which I charge up during off-peak low rate periods. Typically, on Cosy, my average kWh cost is about 16.7p + standing charge and VAT, as 85% of my consumption is on the lowest rate 15.19p/kWh period. Refer to my last previous bill, attached. The standard variable charge for the Northern region was 27.8p/kWh incl VAT. https://octopus.energy/blog/energy-price-cap-jan-2024/
Between 12/01/24 and 10/02/24 inclusive I imported 1101kWh – quite high as we are an all-electric house with ASHP heating. Based on 16.7p/kWh average import + 5% VAT = 17.53p/kWh +31 days @ 55.38p standing charge incl. VAT I should be getting billed £209.61. (Give or take a few pounds as the average kWh cost is my best estimate) But if you bill me the whole billing period at the standard tariff of 27.8p/kWh +30 days @ 55.38p that would be £322.69. Octopus would be over-billing me by £113 for the 30 day period 12/01/24 to 10/02/24 inclusive. I’m afraid I can’t accept that proposal.

Let's hope we can avoid this debacle with my Agile tariff!

This post was modified 4 weeks ago by AllyFish

   
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(@andris)
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Posts: 91
Topic starter  

I love this new feature on the octopus app. I can see my real time usage!

Screenshot 20240424 163347 Octopus

 

16kw Samsung TDM ASHP. 8.4kw PV, power optimizers 20×420watt panels 6kw SolarEdge inverter.


   
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Toodles
(@toodles)
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Joined: 2 years ago
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@andris I like it too! It is even more liked when the consumption is X and the export is X++! 😉 Toodles.

Toodles, 76 years young and hoping to see 100 and make some ROI on my renewable energy investment!


   
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Toodles
(@toodles)
Noble Member Contributor
5468 kWhs
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 843
 

This is the sort of day I like!

IMG 0659

 

Toodles, 76 years young and hoping to see 100 and make some ROI on my renewable energy investment!


   
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(@andris)
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Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 91
Topic starter  

@toodles like the 6th of April

Screenshot 20240424 182921 Octopus
Screenshot 20240424 182515 Octopus

16kw Samsung TDM ASHP. 8.4kw PV, power optimizers 20×420watt panels 6kw SolarEdge inverter.


   
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(@andris)
Reputable Member Member
1122 kWhs
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 91
Topic starter  

Last month was the first month of the year, where the solar production covered the cost of the incoming electricity. With Agile, my average price came to 9.97p/kw. I got paid the 15p/kw for export. I loved that it  was higher than the import price. Very happy 😊 

16kw Samsung TDM ASHP. 8.4kw PV, power optimizers 20×420watt panels 6kw SolarEdge inverter.


   
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