That's the way to go @batalto  The cost of lithium batteries has been steadily falling whilst energy-prices have been rocketing.

That means the break-even point is now surprisingly short.... around two years.

At the beginning of this week my local Borough Councillor wrote to tell me that a West Country dairy farmer was paying about £5 per cow per month to keep the milking parlor and bulk storage tank running. For an average-sized herd with two milkings each day, that equates to a £1000 electric bill per month.

I will be contacting local dairy farmers as a matter of urgency. They need to know that there are alternative strategies available.

@editor - I don't know if you're still 'in contract' or have dropped onto the Standard Variable Tariff. This affects what you might wish to complain about.

However, the Ofgem guidance for Energy Suppliers is that they can require a customer on monthly direct debit to keep sufficient funds in their account that they cover at least the following month's bill. That rule reflects the fact that we are effectively paying in arrears. The first year of a new contract consists of 11 payments, not twelve.

If your Supplier is increasing your DD beyond this then you have the right to demand that the monthly payment is reduced.

Some Suppliers are now increasing DDs on the basis that the customer's account would be in debit by the end of the contract term.

That reasoning is sound, but only holds true if that customer is actually within a contract. The logic can't possibly apply to consumers who are simply using the Standard Variable Tariff because the Supplier can't possibly predict when they will switch to a different Supplier.

I have been briefed as to how the complaints system should work by a very helpful employee at the Office of the Energy Ombudsman. The first step is to download a copy of the actual Complaints Procedure from your particular Supplier. They are not all identical!

I also strongly advise against using telephone calls to handle any aspect of a complaint. You need proof that the process has been followed in order for the case to be accepted by the Ombudsman. Email is the best option because you retain a copy with a date/time stamp.

@robl, we've spent a lot of time insulating the property – just did a stint this week sealing gaps between window frames and we're going to be 'painting' the house with a masonry cream this summer that will lock in more heat. From a heat loss perspective we're quite pleased with where we are. Despite all of this, running the heat pump 24/7 will still consume well over 50kWh on mild-cold days because the heat pump is just ticking over. At current and potentially higher tariffs come October, this starts to become unaffordable. 

The case for batteries is undoubtedly stronger than it has ever been and it's something we're looking at very seriously. 

@editor if you are looking strongly at batteries I would recommend you DO NOT go with what installers offer you. They are well overpriced. If you want easy get the 5kwh pylontechs. £1500 for 5kwh is the cheapest premade battery you are probably going to find in the short term. They are literally plug and play as long as you have a hybrid inverter/charger.

ITSTECHNOLOGIES.SHOP "https://www.itstechnologies.shop/products/pylontech-us5000-4-8kwh-95-d-o-d-battery-storage"

PylonTech US5000-1C from ITS Technologies Trusted supplier for over 10yrs

PylonTech US5000-1C from ITS Technologies, No.1 Supplier for home Solar battery storage systems.

Whether you go with what installers recommend depends on how you intend to deploy the batteries.

If they are configured as part of a set up which includes the possibility of grid-export, then you are constrained by the regulations around MCS accreditation and G98/99 export approval from your DNO.

OTOH, if you are heading in the direction of off-grid storage to run 240v AC equipment (as I am) then there are very few rules which apply. And that includes safety regulations!

A hybrid off-grid installation means you'd be paying about £2000 for 14kWh storage with BMS (Battery Management System). But you then need to learn how to put it together with the right tools.

You pay a hefty premium to manufacturers of off-the-shelf storage batteries, such as Pylontech, to avoid learning the DIY approach.

@transparent I wonder if your dairy farmer heard:

BBC.CO.UK "https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00120bp"

BBC Radio 4 - On Your Farm, Cheese-making on Mull

Nancy Nicolson meets the Reade family, who farm on the Hebridean island of Mull.

where they cool their milk for daily storage by transferring the heat from the milk to warm their swimming pool, then use the heat from the pool to warm the milk back up for producing cheese (if I remember correctly).

Posted by: @transparent

A hybrid off-grid installation means you'd be paying about £2000 for 14kWh storage with BMS (Battery Management System). But you then need to learn how to put it together with the right tools.

Is that £2,000 for all the kit?

That's £2000 for the battery cells and the BMS, which is the electronic box that provides balancing and protection. I'm including an approximate amount for (thick) cables, a fuse and a trip.

You'll need to house them somehow. The cells don't run hot, but a busbar bolt which isn't at the required torque will heat up. So I've used some off-cuts from Fermacell, a cementatious wall-board.

You could equally well decide to use a kitchen wall cupboard. It's about the right size, but try to buy from Howdens because they use the more substantial 18mm thick high-density chipboard.

On top of that you require an inverter. The type depends on what you're trying to achieve. Allow £1000+.

I'm already having this conversation with others. See the dialog between @batalto and I over here a month ago.

@transparent to be fair you don't need to spend £1k on the inverter. Mine is just the Sofar ME3000SP and they aren't that much. You can even get used one on eBay for a few hundred.

EBAY.CO.UK "https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=sofar+me3000sp&_sacat=0"

Posted by: @batalto

to be fair you don't need to spend £1k on the inverter.

That's true. But I'm also allowing some headroom for the double-pole mains isolator, cabling, mains changeover switches, trips and the DIN-rail enclosure.

The ball-park figures I've just given should be sufficient for @editor to decide whether to buy-in server-rack batteries such as PylonTech offer or proceed down the DIY route.

There's a bit more to this than just bolting the bits together.

You need crimp-tools, torque wrench etc. and a qualified electrician to make the mains connections.

And there's some background knowledge required, such as how to first connect the battery to the inverter without the inrush current to the capacitors blowing the logic on the electronics board.

Even so, that still leaves a huge gap between the cost of the DIY route (off grid) and getting pre-built modules installed by a professional.

As I'm a designer, I don't see myself wanting to start up a supply/installation business for the required DIY component parts.

It's no threat to me if this Forum becomes another of the online places where end-users can find out how to build their own off-grid battery system.

@heat-pump-newbie

Hi Newbie,

Because of its high specific heat capacity, water makes an excellent means of storing heat energy. I feel we should be making more use of this to help reduce our carbon footprint.

@derek-m Did you hear the program ? It sounds like a brilliant setup