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[Sticky] Solar Power Output – Let’s Compare Generation Figures

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Toodles
(@toodles)
Famed Member Contributor
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1911
 

@andris This April was better than the previous two Aprils have been! Exporting on Intelligent Octopus Flux which provides a little over 22 pence per kWh and nearly 30 pence between 16:00 and 19:00. Regards, Toodles the Scrooge.

IMG 6413

Toodles, he heats his home with cold draughts and cooks his food with magnets.


   
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Transparent
(@transparent)
Illustrious Member Moderator
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 2377
 

Posted by: @andris

decided aginst it as I felt with tarrifs getting better for export let them store my energy [...]

Now that NESO and the RESPs are directing future electricity strategy, there will be a much greater emphasis on the physics underlying the principles of single-phase export from domestic properties.

Evaluating the benefits of grid-export using (Ofgem-approved) tariffs doesn't reflect what's happening.

Although domestic consumption accounts for less than 30% of the total, it is the single major contributor to the 9% losses within the electricity supply chain.
See DUKES 2023 stats, as published in July'24.

DUKES24 Ch5 Tbl5

Losses at local substations due to phase imbalance are unsustainable.

It's not just the heat which is created in the transformer, but also damage to underground cables from high-currents in the Neutral return path.

Here's a timeline showing current flows on just one feed (out of four) from a local substation:

SolarImbalance 2099531

There's mist/fog in the air until 10:30 when sunshine breaks through.
Homes supplied by phase-L1 have more solar generation than the others, which is reflected in less power being drawn from the grid.

As a direct consequence, current in the Neutral rises, and energy is dissipated as heat into the cooling oil surrounding the transformer.

We can't attain Net Zero with the local distribution grid under such stress.
Export tariffs must change to reflect best practice.

 

DUKES is the Digest of UK Energy Statistics, published annually in July for preceding calendar year.
Chapter 5 covers electricity supplies.

This post was modified 3 hours ago 3 times by Transparent
This post was modified 1 hour ago by Transparent

Save energy... recycle electrons!


   
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Toodles
(@toodles)
Famed Member Contributor
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1911
 

@transparent What (if anything)can we as domestic consumers / producers do to alleviate the situation? Are there strategies we might adopt to reduce the strain please?

I am assuming that by allowing Octopus Energy some control over my battery and when this charges via grid and or solar and when they discharge the battery as export to the grid, Octopus are helping the DNO’s in their endeavours - but are they? Regards, Toodles.

Toodles, he heats his home with cold draughts and cooks his food with magnets.


   
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downfield
(@downfield)
Estimable Member Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 53
 

@transparent so what is the best way forward?  It seems sensible to have distributed generation and local battery storage - if you can afford it - to help ameliorate issues similar to those a few days ago in Iberia.

If I had a 3-phase supply, I suppose I would need to change to a 3-phase ASHP and EV charger, but what about my other single-phase appliances?  Do they get connected to one of the phases or can you get a converter so that the single phase load is somehow shared across the 3-phase supply?

And I suppose I would need a 3-phase inverter as well for the solar panels?

This post was modified 3 hours ago by downfield

Mitsubishi Zubadan 14kW with Mixergy 210l DHW in 220m2 barn property. 24 solar panels = 9kWp with GivEnergy 5.0kW Hybrid inverter and 19kWh GivE batteries. Jaga Strada fan-assisted rads throughout. Landvac vacuum glazing/triple glazed windows.


   
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JulianC
(@julianc)
Noble Member Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 319
 

I did ~490kWh in April from my south facing 4kW system in rural Worcestershire. Very pleased. That paid ~£360 via FiT. 

ASHP is currently switched off (infinite CoP?) 🤔 as h/w heater via electric diverter from solar PV

Daikin Altherma 3H HT 12kWh ASHP with Mixergy h/w cylinder; 4kW solar PV with Solic 200 electric diverter; Honda e and new Hyundai Ioniq 5 N electric vehicles with Myenergi Zappi mk1 charger


   
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Transparent
(@transparent)
Illustrious Member Moderator
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 2377
 

Yes. Storing the solar generation within the home is greatly preferable.
NESO calls that approach "meter side" (meaning 'on the consumer side of the meter').

Yes, we need more homes on 3-phase supplies, and the DNO would normally make this a requirement if an application for a Heat-Pump or EV-charger indicated at household consumption was 60A or above (ignoring short-term surges of course).

Migrating to 3-phase should ideally be done

  1. before installing a heat pump, because 3ph compressors & pumps are inherently more efficient
  2. before installing an EV charger, because a 3ph unit can deliver 11kW rather than 7kW

 

So we need to draw the attention of householders to these factors before they consider such equipment.
That means having such conversations in pubs and social events.

Ideally we need a much larger public-awareness campaign with local energy seminars... but there's no incentive for the energy industry to fund it.

 

Having a 3-ph supply and Smart Meter does not mean that you must have an industrial-looking 3-ph consumer unit!

Only the 3ph appliances need connections from a 3ph distribution board.
A standard consumer unit can be fitted with a 3ph Switch Disconnector and 3ph trips for just those devices.

3ph trips

If we want to further explore 3-phase stuff, can we please start a fresh topic which others can find.

I have much more I could say, but it's not relevant to this topic title.

 

And no @toodles - Octopus are unable to provide any grid-friendly battery storage operation for you.

There's no monitoring apparatus on the 11kV and 240/415v levels of the grid which they can access, even if they wanted to.

The LV diagrams I'm posting here are extremely rare.
Not only am I unaware of anyone else handling/investigating such data,
but I also have my own grid monitors 'in the field'.

I have not (yet) posted data from my monitors here on the Forum.

This post was modified 2 hours ago by Transparent

Save energy... recycle electrons!


   
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