Heat pumps and OPEN VENTED DHW tanks?
I am struggling to find an installer, or manufacturer, who can fit me an ASHP in conjunction with a vented DHW tank. Out here in the wilds of Shropshire, 1000 ft up, the water pressure (or even availability) of mains water is iffy so there are two large cold water tanks in the loft. This also avoids the need for pressure relief to the outside world, in the event the immersion heater decides to boil the tank. Am I chasing unicorn poo, or do such systems exist (even on the Welsh marches)?
I guess I need an MCS installer to avoid planning issues, though I may have those anyway since I have a 20 YO A2A aircon system, and I believe I am only allowed one HP under permitted developments? I do have 10 years of energy consumption data from my oil burner (10 kwhr per day per degree day of heating needs) so maybe I can duck the heat loss calculations?
Absolutely nothing at all to stop any ashp being used with a vented tank except that I'm not sure anyone advertises a vented tank with a large enough coil. Most tank manufacturers will do specials or you can use a plate heat exchanger instead of a coil (arguably better anyway), or just plumb an 'unvented' tank with a vent (although this is unnecessarily expensive). Really this shouldn't be an issue for any half competent plumber.
Doubtless some will give a spiel about legionella, you should run a legionella cycle in accordance with recommendations (although others may argue that this is unnecessary).
Sadly you are getting the usual nonsense of installers who can't think outside their very small box and insist on using the ashp manufacturers pre plumbed cylinder so that they can put complete rookies on the job whilst still charging a premium.
Permitted development applies only to one heat pump so you will need express consent if you already have one. Once you have express consent MCS isn't necessary unless you want the grant. Sadly (and disgracefully imho) MCS is necessary for installation under pd.
You probably can't duck the loss calcs because emitters need to be sized but it might be possible to persuade an installer to use your actual consumption for the system sizing. Most will probably refuse however because as a customer you can't be trusted and likely over-size as a result.
4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.
Gledhill do a range of OV HP tanks .. eg Gledhill SL Plus HP 300HP3SQM EE Open Vented - PLUHP300OV, though these are not, of course, part of any manufacturer's standard kit. Sounds like I figured right - I need planning approval for the second HP. Might be easier just to upgrade the existing one and go A2A for the whole bungalow. I used to despise hot air heating, back when it was gas furnaces, but since I want aircon anyway ..
The fact BUS doesn't apply to A2A is another stupid government decision. Much of the continent (well, Scandinavia) runs on A2A as far as I know, thus avoiding a whole ton of freezup issues.
Legionella and even DHW in total are not really a consideration.. I have enough PV and battery to just run an immersion heater on cheap (thanks Octopus) overnight electrons, and leave the heatpump to do the space heating.
As you say though, finding a flexible installer, out here in the wild especially, is a challenge .. much easier to shift BUS-funded boxes en mass. Even Octopus (as Which recommended) won't play with me, whether because they just don't have anyone out here, or whether because of non standard needs, is hard to tell. Maybe they just don't like anyone who has actually done some research. 🙂
Posted by: @dave1234As you say though, finding a flexible installer, out here in the wild especially, is a challenge .. much easier to shift BUS-funded boxes en mass. Even Octopus (as Which recommended) won't play with me, whether because they just don't have anyone out here, or whether because of non standard needs, is hard to tell. Maybe they just don't like anyone who has actually done some research. 🙂
Not sure you are any worse off than those like me who live close to London when it comes to flexible installers. Many including me report similar problems.
Octopus seem to have a fairly good reputation for being tolerably flexible but will only engage if your house fits their current target market.
Few installers, in my experience, like people who have done any research, oresumably because it makes it more difficultf for them to spout bs to get the sale they want. Those that do like such people deserve our custom.
Unfortunately the bus and pd rules, both of which require mcs, have created an industry which some argue is not healthy.
4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.
you can use any manufacturers ashp unvented cylinder as an open vented cylinder have done it numerous times as the water flow rate and pressure is quite bad here in the Sw London area! All that the installer needs to do is not use the expansion vessel and combination valve . Cap the prv and plumb it like an open vented cylinder. It’s surprising how many installers don’t know thisPosted by: @dave1234I am struggling to find an installer, or manufacturer, who can fit me an ASHP in conjunction with a vented DHW tank. Out here in the wilds of Shropshire, 1000 ft up, the water pressure (or even availability) of mains water is iffy so there are two large cold water tanks in the loft. This also avoids the need for pressure relief to the outside world, in the event the immersion heater decides to boil the tank. Am I chasing unicorn poo, or do such systems exist (even on the Welsh marches)?
I guess I need an MCS installer to avoid planning issues, though I may have those anyway since I have a 20 YO A2A aircon system, and I believe I am only allowed one HP under permitted developments? I do have 10 years of energy consumption data from my oil burner (10 kwhr per day per degree day of heating needs) so maybe I can duck the heat loss calculations?
- 26 Forums
- 2,367 Topics
- 53.7 K Posts
- 209 Online
- 6,042 Members
Join Us!
Worth Watching
Latest Posts
-
RE: Connecting Growatt SPH5000 over wired ethernet rather than wireless
@z8lccda, you’ve just described my setup - Growatt SPH5...
By Majordennisbloodnok , 1 hour ago
-
Data Accuracy Problem: Daikin 8kW Heat Pump's Onecta App vs MMI Power Consumption
Good Evening. Has anyone found the following when usi...
By Nursethescreens , 4 hours ago
-
RE: Help needed with Grant Aerona 3 issues
First time posting so bear with me. Some bits that have...
By Adamp , 7 hours ago
-
RE: Mitsu PUHZ-SW120YHA + EHSC-VM20Uk - Performance
All understood. Obviously its a bit house de...
By JamesPa , 7 hours ago
-
RE: Water Hammer After Heat Pump Install
From OPs description I had the impression (quite possib...
By JamesPa , 10 hours ago
-
RE: Who's your electricity provider and what's your tariff?
@majordennisbloodnok This may be a better thread to ...
By Batpred , 1 day ago
-
RE: Best Heat Pump Brand in the UK
Last Call to Vote & Win! Haven't voted for your Hea...
By Mars , 1 day ago
-
RE: Solis S6-EH1P8K-L-PLUS – Why I Chose It and What I’ve Learned So Far
Interesting question. To be frank, since I have no inte...
By Majordennisbloodnok , 2 days ago
-
RE: Changing from 4-port buffer to volumizer
@andy1618 see the very sage advice from @editor above. ...
By JamesPa , 2 days ago
-
RE: New Fogstar 15.5kWh upright solution
The video shows the JK balancer, but the connection of ...
By Batpred , 2 days ago
-
RE: Ecodan unable to hit legionella target temp - what's the consensus?
@9jwr9 Hi, yes this is the issue with every (stand alon...
By ASHP-BOBBA , 2 days ago
-
RE: Help me keep the faith with my air source heat pump installation
@adamk FWIW I managed unintentionally to 'coax' mine in...
By JamesPa , 2 days ago
-
RE: Octopus Cosy Heat Pump Owners & Discussion Thread
You are in essence right. Adia only works with selecte...
By JamesPa , 2 days ago
-
No, you haven’t missed out, @batpred. This thread’ll st...
By Majordennisbloodnok , 2 days ago
-
RE: Tesla Powerwall – More of a ‘Luxury’ Than an ROI Winner!
Also, though they weren’t prepared to match the price t...
By Toodles , 2 days ago
-
RE: How long will your energy contract last?
My INTELLI-FIX-12M-25-08-29 has less than 12 months to ...
By Batpred , 2 days ago
-
RE: GivEnergy 2025 forthcoming batteries and inverters
Then, perhaps @toodles , you should've made a submissio...
By Transparent , 2 days ago
-
RE: Balancing financial efficiency and comfort using the Octopus Cosy tariff
I am wondering if anyone with an EV could find the 7p/k...
By Batpred , 2 days ago
-
Possibly, but it would also reduce DeltaT across the em...
By JamesPa , 2 days ago



