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Why are my estimated delivered energy values so much lower than my consumed? (Mitsubishi Ecodan)

 
Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)
Last Post by Snuffy 1 year ago
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 Snuffy
(@snuffy)
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148 kWhs
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Posts: 18
Topic starter 11/02/2024 7:42 pm  

Help please,

I've never looked into my consumed v delivered energy as I don't really understand what I'm looking at.  Also, as our usage doesn't appear high compared to others with ASHP whilst we seem to maintain a comfortable temperature I've just left well alone.  Until today that is.

On a whim, I decided to look at the energy reports in the Melcloud app and got a huge shock.  My delivered energy appears very low compared to the consumed energy values.  I get that they're only estimated but still can't understand how they can be so poor.  

Just wondering if I'm getting mixed up as I know so little about COP calculations or if not, where is the error coming from.  I assume the delivered values are wrong as otherwise I'd expect either my house to be too cold or my energy bills much higher.  

Ive tried searching online but just getting more confused with wren these figures have come from.  Can anyone explain what's going on in simple terms and put my ,ind at rest please?

20240211 180447
20240211 180433
Screenshot 20240211 180243 MELCloud
Screenshot 20240211 174614 MELCloud

 

 

I've added screenshot of energy reports for 1 day and total since installation last year along with photos of the contoller screens.

This topic was modified 1 year ago 2 times by Snuffy

   
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Ecoden cop
 HarriUp
(@harriup)
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12/02/2024 6:38 pm  

I would look first at the placement of the thermistor measuring the flow temperature. I am going to assume you have an Ecodan cyclinder too, in which case the flow thermistor is held by a clip in the position I have highlighted in red (return thermistor in blue). The generated energy is a calculation of the energy difference between the flow and return temperatures at the flow rate the unit is also measuring.

The problem could be as simple as the thermistor not being clipped in and generating a lower value than than the actual temperature in the pipe. If you have a different cyclinder you'll have to have a good look to track, it might be hidden under insulation though I don;t think you would have the problem then!

The higher generated energy registered for HW could because the thermistor is picking up more heat when the pipework is radiating more heat at the higher flow temps than when you have a cooler heating flow.

cylinder

 

Mitsubishi EcoDan 8.5 kW ASHP - radiators on a single loop
210l Mitsubishi solar tank
Solar thermal
3.94kW of PV


   
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 Snuffy
(@snuffy)
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148 kWhs
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Posts: 18
Topic starter 12/02/2024 8:35 pm  

Thanks for the advice.  My set up looks a little different as it's more spread out.  I've found 2 likely suspects.  One of which looks like a probe and is held inside a pipe half way up the cylinder.  Held in place by a bung of tissue which would probably help explain the erroneous readings.  I've attached photos below.  1st is close up, 2nd is to show situ on the cylinder.  Not sure about the other sensor but I've added a 3rd pic of what it might be.  Bit dark but best angle I could get.

20240212 190725
20240212 190910
20240212 190820

 

 


   
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 HarriUp
(@harriup)
Reputable Member Member
1073 kWhs
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 107
13/02/2024 12:55 am  

The last picture is the flow meter, the other two are of the tank thermistor in its pocket. The flow and return thermistors should be on the main pipework from the heat pump, between where it enters the house and where the pipework starts to meet pumps and junctions. I have attached an image of what the thermistors look like

thermistor

. The copper body is a couple of cm long and is most likely meant to sit in a u-shaped clip soldered along the pipe. It is possible for them to sit in a bit of plumbing - a pocket - that places the thermistor more into the centre of the pipe, similar to the way the tank thermistor pushes into the tank. In either case I think the symptoms suggest at least one of these has come adrift from its proper place.

Mitsubishi EcoDan 8.5 kW ASHP - radiators on a single loop
210l Mitsubishi solar tank
Solar thermal
3.94kW of PV


   
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 noburn
(@noburn)
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519 kWhs
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Posts: 22
13/02/2024 7:59 am  

The thermistor pocket coming adrift from the flow pipe was a fault I experienced shortly after installation.  It manifested itself as the measured return temperature being higher than the measured flow temperature. The sensors on my system were hidden behind the control box which has a hinge on the right hand side and can be easily moved.  Photo shows sensor after moving pipe insulation.

PXL 20231213 164053914

 

 


   
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 Snuffy
(@snuffy)
Eminent Member Member
148 kWhs
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 18
Topic starter 13/02/2024 8:18 am  

Great thanks.  I'll have another look when I get home.  Couldn't see anything else near the tank but could be hidden behind lagging.  I'll also take a look outside if its light enough.  Least I know what to go back to the installer with.


   
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 Snuffy
(@snuffy)
Eminent Member Member
148 kWhs
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 18
Topic starter 14/02/2024 10:32 pm  

@noburn 

Found them.  One on the intake and one on the return.  Both are held in place pretty well with cable ties and are under the insulation.  

It's due for first service next month so I'll ask them to check it out.

Thanks for all your help.  Least I know where they are now.

20240214 212303
20240214 212348

 

 


   
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