Posted by: @newhouse87

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@derek-m no was not doing it continuous, was going to try this week until issue arose. Manifold has no ligts on and stats arent aclling for heat unless i have electrical issue so. Rang unitherm there, he said get plumber back and check if buh valve sticky or stuck on or something.

The Unitherm guy will have been referring to one of the UFH valves being stuck, since the BUH doesn't have any valves.

Do you have a wiring diagram for your UFH system? Do you have a copy of the installer's manual for your heat pump. If you have a copy there should be a section near the end which lists all the various parameters that can be set within the controller, it would be useful if you could check the actual settings in the controller and make a record. If you don't have a copy of the manual then see if you can download one.

@derek-m he was on about immersion pin or something being sticky. I have commissioning cert on my work email if thats any good? I will look and see if i have installer manual, have operators manual alright. IM thinking must be something physical, ie sensor,pin etc as it happens intermittently, if it was 4am everynight it would be setting i would think. 

hardly anything to do with me now having actuator heads off in all living areas?

Posted by: @newhouse87

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I will look and see if i have installer manual, have operators manual alright. IM thinking must be something physical, ie sensor,pin etc as it happens intermittently

Would you like me to remind you of the very first point I made on page-1 of this topic?
There is a statutory requirement for you to be supplied with the documentation for:

• operation of the system
• maintenance
• optimisation to use as little fuel as possible

Even if you find a manual, and even if it's specifically about a 3-port valve, it won't tell where the installer's placed it, nor which of the connections is which.

My favoured solution is for installers to photograph all the kit they've put in, and present you with digital copies, suitably annotated.
That should be pretty straightforward, and would avoid the remote detective work we're now engaged in.

@transparent i am in the situation we are in now so no point me moaning about my installer.

I'm not suggesting we have a moan.

I've just written an email to my local Council (who are the Planning Authority) asking them to review what is their role in receiving Part-L forms from heat-pump installers in this area.
If it's just a pointless administrative exercise, then we need a change of law.
Otherwise, they should offer a service which includes some basic level of verification that the installer is obeying the relevant parts of the Building Act.

The installation of heat-pumps will increase exponentially if targets are going to met for Net Zero emissions.
So the problem is only going to get worse.

At the moment, HP Installers are being treated with the same level of trust which has been afforded to electricians issuing Building Control Notices.
But the evidence suggests this shouldn't be the case.

I really am not a type to moan.
When I see a problem, then I set out to fix it... even if that requires changing national guidance and legislation. 😎 

@transparent fair play to you but that process is time consuming and is not going to help me to stop this mad energy usage any time soon.

Posted by: @transparent

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Posted by: @newhouse87

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I will look and see if i have installer manual, have operators manual alright. IM thinking must be something physical, ie sensor,pin etc as it happens intermittently

Would you like me to remind you of the very first point I made on page-1 of this topic?
There is a statutory requirement for you to be supplied with the documentation for:

• operation of the system
• maintenance
• optimisation to use as little fuel as possible

Even if you find a manual, and even if it's specifically about a 3-port valve, it won't tell where the installer's placed it, nor which of the connections is which.

My favoured solution is for installers to photograph all the kit they've put in, and present you with digital copies, suitably annotated.
That should be pretty straightforward, and would avoid the remote detective work we're now engaged in.

Whilst I fully agree with your statements. The problem is that no one is policing the installers, to ensure that they are providing all the required information. The end user is probably just happy to get the installers out of their home and did not know, or think, that lots of information should have been provided.

Afterall,  it is a brand new system, that has been correctly designed, installed and commissioned, so what could go wrong? 🙄 

@newhouse87

If the attached manual is for your equipment then please let me know.

Under section 3.2 on page 4 it mentions ET.

Please confirm that there is water going through the outside unit and indoor unit.

If you look under section 17.2 on page 17, Symptom 2 states that if the water temperature is too low (less than 15C), the BUH will be used to bring up the water temperature before the compressor is started.

Symptom 7, on page 18, also mention possible problems relating to the BUH.

When the heat pump is in 'stopped' mode, it is necessary for the water pump to run periodically to circulate the water and warm the pipework. What is the setting for water pump operation? You should be able to view energy 'used' and energy 'produce' along with sensor readings. I would suggest recording these values to see what, if anything, is happening.

How do you stop the heat pump from operating overnight?

@derek-m found my manual, its daikin alterma low temp split, slightly different to manual in your post. I thought because it is split i dont have water running in outside unit? what do you mean what setting for water pump? IM using set back on my programmable stat in sitting room which ensures heating doesnt come on until6am at the earliest.

Posted by: @newhouse87

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@derek-m found my manual, its daikin alterma low temp split, slightly different to manual in your post. I thought because it is split i dont have water running in outside unit? what do you mean what setting for water pump? IM using set back on my programmable stat in sitting room which ensures heating doesnt come on until6am at the earliest.

 

What are the model numbers of your indoor and outdoor units?

Sorry, I should have explained better. When the heat pump pauses operation, the compressor stops, and then possibly some minutes later the water pump stops. If the water pump remains stopped for a long period, the LWT and RWT temperature sensors may not be providing accurate readings of what is happening. To overcome this problem, the controller could be set to run just the water pump, for several minutes, to equalise the temperature around the system, so that the controller can decide if the compressor should be restarted.

Because you have a split system, with possibly a primary and secondary water pump, I am not certain if the controller would run both water pumps or just one. Also where are the LWT and RWT measurements being taken?

What I think may be happening, is that when your heat pump stops operating because of the setback, the water pump also stops completely, because it has not been set to carryout the periodic running. This causes the water temperature in the outdoor unit to fall to the point where the controller initiates the frost protection, in which it starts the water pump and BUH.

I would suggest that at a convenient time, you stop the heat pump using setback, then monitor and record all the sensor readings over a period of time, noting how they vary in relation to each other, the indoor temperature and the outside temperature. Then post the results for analysis.

Posted by: @derek-m

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Posted by: @newhouse87

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@derek-m found my manual, its daikin alterma low temp split, slightly different to manual in your post. I thought because it is split i dont have water running in outside unit? what do you mean what setting for water pump? IM using set back on my programmable stat in sitting room which ensures heating doesnt come on until6am at the earliest.

 

What are the model numbers of your indoor and outdoor units?

Sorry, I should have explained better. When the heat pump pauses operation, the compressor stops, and then possibly some minutes later the water pump stops. If the water pump remains stopped for a long period, the LWT and RWT temperature sensors may not be providing accurate readings of what is happening. To overcome this problem, the controller could be set to run just the water pump, for several minutes, to equalise the temperature around the system, so that the controller can decide if the compressor should be restarted.

Because you have a split system, with possibly a primary and secondary water pump, I am not certain if the controller would run both water pumps or just one. Also where are the LWT and RWT measurements being taken?

What I think may be happening, is that when your heat pump stops operating because of the setback, the water pump also stops completely, because it has not been set to carryout the periodic running. This causes the water temperature in the outdoor unit to fall to the point where the controller initiates the frost protection, in which it starts the water pump and BUH.

I would suggest that at a convenient time, you stop the heat pump using setback, then monitor and record all the sensor readings over a period of time, noting how they vary in relation to each other, the indoor temperature and the outside temperature. Then post the results for analysis.

 

3am again, woke up to it,same issue, had to switch off at fuse box in plant room. Rang plumber who serviced it in January, cant understand it, he is getting onto some specialist who solely works on these daikins who may have come across it. I havent a clue where the lwt/rwt measurements are being taken fron, i can just read them in sensors tab. I haven't seen frost protection symbol on main screen any of these times. It could be on just before i get to it though. So essentially some evening, make sure pump not running and record lwt/rwt/refrigerant temps at sat 6/7/8/9/10pm?