@jamespa 

Hi James , RSVP ?

Your questions

1) is Weather compensation working , emphatically YES. During winter the depth of Water Temperature can exceed 43 C, while in summer it only reaches ~27 C.

The Water Law Thermostat, shown in the diagram works perfectly .

Increasing the Offset Temperature increases the Water Law Thermostat set Temperature, precisely!

The Water Temperature is seen to increase above the Water Law graph Temperature + plus the set Water Law offset.

When reducing below the Water law graph Temperature + the Water Law offset Temperature the Heat Pump stop instantly !

The Water Law front screen appears to be very accurate.

2) i currently use 2091 option 2 , but have , for the most part used 2091 option 4.

2091 options 2,3 and 4 All allow the user access to the Water Law ( WL) screen and WL Thermostat display.

The device is designed to be used by setting, and displaying  the offset.

3) The WL Thermostat has worked perfectly over several hundred  days! 

@iantelescope 

Ok that's reassuring.

Referring to your previous post my version of the manual shows eight parameters to set for wl, four for heating and four for cooling.  Can you clarify the middle and right hand (co) ordinates or better still post the precise manual (the one you are using) for your version of the firmware

I suspect that James has misinterpreted (which is not difficult to do) the text in the manual concerning the WL settings.

With regard to the PWM control of your primary water pump, can you check the settings of FSV 4051, 4052 and 4053.

In fact it may be of use for you to record and post the settings of all the FSV parameters, we can then look through each one and suggest any changes that may need to be made. This should cut down on the number of posts going back and forth.

It would also be useful to keep a record of the final settings for future reference.

@jamespa 

Good grief ,suddenly this thing has re-started .....PC insanity.

I regularly change the parameters experimentally :

1) 201* Low 15C Outdoor Air Temperature

2) 201* High -5C Outdoor Air Temperature

3) 202* Low 30 C or 33 or 35 C Water Law 1

4) 202* High 40 C or 45 C or 50 C Water Law 1

My Device is connected to Water Law 1 .

Manuals:

I have the old three manuals , User , installation and Control.

I have the three new  manuals , User , installation and Control.

Water Law graphs:

for winter ...

for summer .

The Reasoning behind the dual Tempeature and Water Law control is that:

1) The physical Thermostat controls the Room Temperature.

while

2) The Water Law , WL Software Thermostat allows the user to limit excessive electricity consumption in winter:

3) the exact mapping of consumption against supply , the water law concept , has to be limited given  the potentially large electricity bills.

I'm sorry, but if that is how you feel I am out of this for good.  

I have absolutely no way to know how your system is set up, other than by asking questions, and am therefore asking questions solely in an effort to tailor my response to the specific circumstances, and ensure that my response is appropriate. Nor do I know which version of firmware you have and thus don't know for certain I am reading the right version of the manual.   I'm not questioning the logic of what you do or how your system is set up, just trying to establish the facts.

If you feel that this is 'pc insanity' then, whilst I fully accept you are entitled to feel that, I am equally entitled not to continue to attempt help.  This is hugely disappointing as I thought we were getting somewhere.

I have read and reread your immediately previous post several times and I am also now not sure whether your objective is to achieve a comfortable temperature at minimum cost, or simply to minimise cost. 

If it's the latter then please disconnect your heating entirely, if it's the former then, whether you like it or not, the laws of thermodynamics apply.  Your house loss at any given oat/iat combination is what it is, and if you wish to maintain the IAT you have to supply the same amount from your emitters.

Hopefully you will reflect on how your comment might be viewed by those who are doing their best to offer free, unbiased advice and respond appropriately.

@jamespa 

Yes , I want to be warm ......but Not at any cost!.

Sorry @jamespa

,

I spent virtually the entire Saturday failing to get through to you because of this PC insanity .......

I have been unable to get through , except intermittently.

Please try and understand .......I could not, reliably,  contact you !

I did try and return the manual information and the firmware .....so here I will try again.

1) the Field bits

Please see my personal field bit settings using the first version of the manual .

2) Consumption verses Temperature.

Please see my consumption figures for my Heat Pump :

3) Yes , I want to be warm ......but Not at any cost!.

In my experience , My Heat Pump does  not work well , or efficiently between November and February.

4) De -Icing  and  clouds!

In my experience My Heat Pump produces large clouds with my neighbours , including a care home , asking if I was in trouble and could they help.

   The violent oscillations in the Heat Pump outlet  Temperatures,  during the night, reflect the de -icing operating sucessfully .

The Heat pump consumed NO Energy during this cloud forming exercise :

Therefore , the energy for De -iceing was obtained from the Buffer tank .

OK apology accepted.

I have been reading the Samsung manual and the version I have indicates that the wired remote controller (WRC) has built in temperature measurement, which can be used (in a way not clearly described) as part of the control loop.  This being the case I cant see you need a thermostat at all.  I am assuming

your version also has built in temperature measurement

its located somewhere sensible.

Can you clarify if this is the case. 

Your heat pump will be less efficient between November and February because thats when its coldest.  This means that the house loses more energy and the heat pump has a lower COP.  Once your plumbing is sorted out we can recalibrate its performance and see if its still a problem. 

I will take a look at your FSVs over the next 24hrs, but I notice already that 'use external thermostat' is selected in 2091.  I think you may be better off setting this to dont use external thermostat, and relying on the internal temperature measurement of the WRC assuming its located somewhere sensible!  I will revert on this one however once you answer the question posed above.

@jamespa 

in a way not clearly described

@jamesPa I like your comment that the  Temperature controls are explained "in a way not clearly described".

From the first ,  the 2091 controls are Not clearly described AND clearly without an explanation as to "Why  the 2091 Field bit options , with the motors using 2091 option 4 repeatedly turning On and OFF .

The Visiting French Samsung engineer , with many years experience , admitted that even he "did not understand the 2091 options, Only the Germans could do that ".

Returning to the substance of your question:

Internal Thermistor?

Yes the Samsung has an internal Thermistor attached to the back of the LCD control panel .

Selected using one of the field bits , you can , and I have attempted to use this Thermistor.

On my Samsung the Thermistor on its own does not work with the Radiator motor still being controlled by an essential physical Thermostat!.

The internal thermistor produces intermittent E121 Errors indicating electrical interference.

Also, the internal thermistor has no ON OFF controls.

External Thermistor?

The Samsung can use an External version of the internal Thermistor selected by another field bit.

This is a simple Thermistor on a long cable removing the need for the user to move the entire control panel , along with the internal Thermistor to another room.

Again, The internal Thermistor will not work with my current set up nor does it provide any timing or control functions .

Water Law ,Weather  compensation Thermistor?

The Water Law Weather compensation Thermistor used by the Water Law software Thermostat is located at the top of the external cabinet in my garden. 

Compressor Run demand.

For 2091/2/3 options 2,3 or 4 the Compressor is set to run state when :

                                Run = Physical Thermostat  logical OR Water Law , WL Thermostat .

@iantelescope

The fact that your heat pump was drawing little power would indicate that it was not performing a defrost cycle during the period shown on the charts. During a defrost cycle the compressor needs to run to push the refrigerant gas around the system.

@jamespa 

Physical Thermostat  logically  ORed with  WL Thermostat .

@jamespa 

Notice that the 2091, 2092,2093 Field bits with  options 2,or 3 0r 4 state  that:

Compressor RUN is  Logically  ORed with the Software Water Law , WL  Thermostat .

 That would imply that I  cannot use Weather compensation without also using a Physical Thermostat .

A physical Thermostat , option 1 of field bit 2091/2092/2093, would ,on it's own , be without Weather compensation! 

@derek-m 

My  cloud creator!

Yes derek , you would expect to see some current / power being used during de-iceing.

To measure that current/ power  , I , on the following morning , ran the second  internal Diagnostic built into the Samsung Heat pump itself.

During de-iceing the Samsung uses a surprisingly small power , if I remember < often 12 Watts  and certainly < 25 Watts.

I will search my records for the actual Power used during de-iceing using the Diagnostics..

 I could not forget the Cloud production!

Posted by: @iantelescope

↑

@jamespa 

Physical Thermostat  logically  ORed with  WL Thermostat .

 

@jamespa 

 

Notice that the 2091, 2092,2093 Field bits with  options 2,or 3 0r 4 state  that:

 

Compressor RUN is  Logically  ORed with the Software Water Law , WL  Thermostat .

 

 That would imply that I  cannot use Weather compensation without also using a Physical Thermostat .

 

A physical Thermostat , option 1 of field bit 2091/2092/2093, would ,on it's own , be without Weather compensation! 

 

 

 

Your present system configuration requires the Honeywell thermostat to stop and start your secondary water pump, otherwise  you would fail to get any thermal energy to the heat emitters. Once the proposed modifications have been carried out, the room thermostat should merely be used as an over temperature limiter.