Posted by: @iantelescope

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Thermino

From reports on Buildhub, good product in theory, but let down by poor product implementation and poor customer service. Return to base if this go wrong and they tend to. Expensive solution to store heat compared to water.

Posted by: @iantelescope

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The proposal is that my Hot water tank be replaced with an "Thermino" Heat Battery

Heat batteries do not have the best temperature gradient to be heated efficiently by an ASHP, because the melt temperature of the fill material is around 60 degs. So heat pump runs flat giving a rubbish CoP.

All electric ones is just like heating a cylinder with the installed immersion. So why rip out a cylinder and replace with a heat battery.

Thread is a little long to sit and read it all. Does your cylinder have an immersion?

Posted by: @iantelescope

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Thermino ?? Advice , Experience ??

Given my two year long Heat Pump Fiasco I was very surprised to get a proposal to fit a "Thermino" Heat Battery.

The proposal is that my Hot water tank be replaced with an "Thermino" Heat Battery.

 

The "Thermino" , unlike my current Hot water tank is supplied with Electrical Energy from either the Off peak Mains OR a Solar panel array fitted to my roof.

The Cost of removing, replacing and simplifying  my current Heat pump would be another £5.3k .

The Cost of the Roof Solar panels would vary between £7.5 k and £12k .

 

Does anyone know anything about Thermino ??

 

Invented by Joseph Black in Edinburgh in the eighteenth century this seems too good to be true!

 

Any advice anybody??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In answer to the question has anyone got any advice, I have and it's don't 

Over a period of years you have been offered free and largely consistent advice by people with no vested interest in selling you anything, just a desire to help.  Unfortunately you have not wished to follow it, which is of course your perogative.

However, given this, it's a mystery why you would even consider the 'advice' of another salesman given the track record of the salesmen you have so far encountered.  However that is also your perogative.

I'm sorry if this seems harsh but you have asked for advice and this is mine.

@johnmo @jamespa  

Many thanks for your quick replies.

The Proposal is to GREATLY SIMPLIFY the SAMSUNG-TELFORD by removing :

1) The unwanted, and unnecessary  Heat Ex changer.

2) The unwanted and unnecessary  Buffer tank.

3) The unnecessary Second motor.

4) The unnecessary  third water expansion tank ,PRV, and second  Magnetic clean filter.

5) Removing and replacing  the 200 l Water tank , replacing with a Thermino Fed from  Solar panels Or Off Peak Electricity  NOT a Heat pump!

These changes would correspond to the advice,  frequently, and often assertively , if not aggressively given, on this , and other sites.

Why would I consider installing a Thermino ?

Have a look at the state of my Kitchen with the current Samsung Telford Heat Pump .......

The idea of replacing the Heat Pump Hot Water supply with an supply from a Solar panel array OR from Off Peak electricity, is , at the very least aesthetically  attractive.

At 76 , I lack the experience and confidence  to do the work myself !

I repeat again , the idea is to remove the Large 200 liter water tank, fed from the Heat Pump, and replace with another Sustainable energy source, Solar Roof panels and or OFF Peak electricity from Octopus Cosy!

Remember, I have already paid out circa £14000 for this mess .....a further £5.3 k for the work on the Heat pump would raise the cost to circa £20000 !!

And that without the £7.5 k Solar panel costing!!

I would be exposed to a £27 K Debt for a Heat Pump worth perhaps £5k!

Posted by: @iantelescope

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The Proposal is to GREATLY SIMPLIFY the SAMSUNG-TELFORD by removing :

1) The unwanted, and unnecessary  Heat Ex changer.

2) The unwanted and unnecessary  Buffer tank.

3) The unnecessary Second motor.

4) The unnecessary  third water expansion tank ,PRV, and second  Magnetic clean filter.

5) Removing and replacing  the 200 l Water tank , replacing with a Thermino Fed from  Solar panels Or Off Peak Electricity  NOT a Heat p[ump!

Noticed from your photos the immersion isn't in the best place to heat the contents of cylinder. But that can easily be fixed.

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Yes

4. Yes

5. No or not quite.

Keep cylinder and reuse. Immersion not ideal location, but you can add a Willis heater (£50). This is installed between the cold water inlet and the hot water outlet (drinking water). No pumps required just a ball valve either side for maintenance.

https://www.unventedcomponentseurope.com/willis-jacket-external-immersion-heater-complete-pre-wired-and-fully-assembled.html/

Then if you have solar, a diverter to power first the cylinder immersion and second the Willis. If you don't have solar either charge the cylinder off peak using the Willis. Or if no off peak a smart self learning immersion thermostat.

Or if you want rid of the cylinder and want super simple. No expansion vessels or safety grip required. Basically works exactly the same as the phase change store you asked about, but uses water and a coil were your hot water passes through.

https://www.plumbnation.co.uk/harlequin-heatstream-electric-150l-direct-mains-hot-water-system-64-4938 h sized to suit your house.

@iantelescope

Who is suggesting that you should remove your hot water cylinder and replace it with a Thermino?

If you can afford the solar PV system, then I would suggest that you also have a power diverter installed to generate hot water using the immersion heater. From Spring through to Autumn you should get the vast majority of your hot water totally free from solar PV, during Winter this would be supplemented by the heat pump.

While your system is far from perfect, the recent improvements relating to the thermostat, and isolating the buffer tank, should give more reliable and efficient operation come the heating season.

It may also be possible to further improve efficiency by optimising the heat pump controller settings.

I agree with @johnmo Apart from the thermio this is a sensible proposal.  

@derek-m & @johnmo

Many thanks Derek and John .........your questions are accurate, unassertive , and appreciated.

My neighbor has installed a, seemingly  very efficient Solar panel array,  resulting in an 80 % reduction in his summer Energy consumption.

On asking for quotes from local Solar installers to install a similar system , I received several offers  for the installation of a similar  Solar panel array.

One of these Solar installers,  said that outwith the Solar panel installation "he could fix my Heat Pump and remove the monstrous 200 litre Hot water tank simultaneously removing the  unnecessary Buffer tank , Second motor , Expansion tank, Heat ex-changer". He would install a "Thermino".

Your excellent idea , much appreciated by the way, of connecting the Solar array to the tank immerser  was not presented.

Who to trust?

I am Not a plumber , nor am I Heating engineer , and do not have the experience, or confidence, to repair , or replace this Heat Pump.

@johnmo Again ,excellent advice . My only question ....who do I trust to do the work??

If it was me I would get a scope of work clearly understood by yourself for the plumbing side. Write it down A, B, C... then find a local plumber you know or find a recommended one from family or friends, get them to price the job.

Split the heating system away from solar - do as different jobs.

@jamespa & @johnmo & @derek-m

Many thanks @jamespa & @johnmo & @derek-m

I will  generate a list of  plumbing operations for the rebuild of my Heat Pump as you suggest @johnmo , only then getting  a local plumber  to perform!

I will then get the company who installed my neighbors Solar panel array to install a similar array on my own roof! Nothing like seeing a previous working example.

Finally, I will connect the Solar panel to a suitable Immerser on the Hot water tank or , as you suggest, on to an inline water heater.

Again I did not know about these inline external Water heaters many thanks.

The Heat pump should look a wee bit less awful!

Posted by: @iantelescope

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suitable Immerser

You can get a decent one from Cool Energy, it can drive two immersions on a cascade, once one heated it moves to the next one.