@glynh I don't think they're phasing Tracker out. More about moving people across so they don't find they're subsidising - due I suspect to Octopus buying much of their requirements on longer term contracts that would mean selling at a loss on short term wholesale prices.

As they start to match up contracts with the new lower wholesale prices I would've thought that at some point later in the summer they suddenly open it up again to immediate switches and they'll move the wait list to immediate too.

I can imagine Agile may well suit some people if you can work with Time of Use & automation to suit. I have not studied the rates to see if its a simple algorithm that relates Agile to Tracker - but suspect its a bit more complex and mixes price with predicted usage

@derek-m hopefully we can mix a bit of both ....saving planet and saving money!

@glynh @fazel

Thanks for posting Manuals & other info. I will try to get my head round it all. Its not helped by the way it's written - that assumes you are familiar with all the terminology and specifics of Therma V.

Also my controller has a slightly older software version that creates additional confusion as features  & presentation are a little different. I have not found out if its possible to upgrade? Probably not without buying a new controller - which is unlikely to be worthwhile.

I suspect some of it will now have to wait for the autumn and colder weather so that impact of any changes can be seen and understood.

But I'm certain that my move to Weather Compensation last Dec helped keep costs down and improved my SCOP etc.

@derek-m  A fair point to make assuming you use no more energy than you absolutely require. I guess that would mean no meat, no travel, no car, no central heating and a shower once a fortnight. I admire your dedication, but at this point I'm not quite ready to match it, so I'll just carry on reducing what I use, producing more of what I need, and buying the balance as efficiently as I can...

Posted by: @tim441

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@derek-m hopefully we can mix a bit of both ....saving planet and saving money!

I am a firm believer in trying to save both energy and money at the same time, but human nature means that money often takes precedence over energy efficiency.

Whilst ToU tariffs may be a useful tool in convincing people to use more energy during certain periods of the day, and in so doing help balance the National Grid, and remove the need for some gas fired power stations to shutdown overnight, they may not actually be saving energy, but causing more to be used.

A further item to consider is diversity factor at local distribution level. The size of the mains cabling in your home is based upon a diversity factor, which assumes that you will not plug a 3kW load into every 13 Amp socket at the same time. The same applies within the electricity supply system, so if you were to have everyone charging their EV's, and battery storage, running their heat pumps, and heating their DHW and spa, all at the same time, this could cause serious problems at local grid level.

You may have noticed that the standing charge on electricity has gone up quite considerably, much of which I believe is to pay for strengthening the distribution network to cope with higher loading, so whilst you are celebrating the fact that you have saved a few pence on some kWh's of electricity, you may wish to consider that you probably caused greater distribution losses, which actually caused more energy, not less, to have to be generated, and in the process pushed up the cost for everyone.

Well done.

Posted by: @glynh

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@derek-m  A fair point to make assuming you use no more energy than you absolutely require. I guess that would mean no meat, no travel, no car, no central heating and a shower once a fortnight. I admire your dedication, but at this point I'm not quite ready to match it, so I'll just carry on reducing what I use, producing more of what I need, and buying the balance as efficiently as I can...

 

I welcome the fact that you are trying to reduce your energy consumption, and I would encourage everyone else to try to do the same. Whilst I hope that ToU tariffs may convince some to reduce their energy consumption during peak periods, I am not convinced that they are likely to encourage people to use less energy, in fact it could be the opposite.

To answer your questions:-

I do still eat meat.

I do still travel, mostly when necessary, but have been known to go on holiday. 🙄 

I use my wife's car, much cheaper. 😎 

We do indeed have central heating, but at the moment all our heating and DHW comes from the Sun.

I have a shower at least once a month whether I need one or not. 😜 

@derek-m hmmm! Not sure I see the answer you propose unless you suggest we all switch off at home, industry, entertainment, travel etc etc .... and have gov mandated rations on Energy usage on each.

I produce at least half my annual usage of elec from solar & have batteries to help spread the load. Through better understanding of my system (helped by this forum) I hope to reduce my elec usage by a significant amount as well as cutting usage (e.g. no more winter hot tub!).

I take a glass half full view and feel if we all do what we can it makes a difference - and should not need gov dictat. The gov role should be to help drive the direction of travel inc education.... and support innovation & insulation ... and ensure the country energy strategy takes the right long term decisions inc energy mix, storage, grid resilience etc.

no easy answers but that's where long term decisions need to be taken to ensure a future that's fair to all. Including future generations.

@derek-m

Derek, you obviously like to make assumptions about other people's motivation, and judging by your contributions today you aren't really an expert on any of this, so I'll put your first intervention down as a little gratuitous trolling and leave it at that. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

Posted by: @tim441

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@derek-m hmmm! Not sure I see the answer you propose unless you suggest we all switch off at home, industry, entertainment, travel etc etc .... and have gov mandated rations on Energy usage on each.

I produce at least half my annual usage of elec from solar & have batteries to help spread the load. Through better understanding of my system (helped by this forum) I hope to reduce my elec usage by a significant amount as well as cutting usage (e.g. no more winter hot tub!).

I take a glass half full view and feel if we all do what we can it makes a difference - and should not need gov dictat. The gov role should be to help drive the direction of travel inc education.... and support innovation & insulation ... and ensure the country energy strategy takes the right long term decisions inc energy mix, storage, grid resilience etc.

no easy answers but that's where long term decisions need to be taken to ensure a future that's fair to all. Including future generations.

You are indeed correct, the are no easy answers, but do you actually trust our present crop of politicians to formulate suitable long term strategies?

I have been a moderator on this forum since its inception, and have helped many forum members resolve problems and improve the overall efficiency of their systems. I am still seeing the same problems two years later. I have written to my MP on a number of occasions on various subjects, and received the same bovine excrement replies from the various departments, which does not exactly fill me with confidence.

The Government offer a £5000 'bribe' to encourage people to install heat pumps, but I suspect that much of the £5000 goes into the pockets of the manufacturers and particularly installers, rather than the customers. As taxpayers we are all helping pay the 'bribe', whilst some installers charge ridiculous hourly rates, for mediocre performance, and there is no one overseeing this poor performance, bringing them to task, and helping improve standards.

Please read the forum threads where installers have failed to even get a heat pump system working correctly, the customer has complained to anyone who they thought should be able to help, only to be told they may have to personally take the installer to court.

It is a wild west out there. 

Posted by: @glynh

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@derek-m

Derek, you obviously like to make assumptions about other people's motivation, and judging by your contributions today you aren't really an expert on any of this, so I'll put your first intervention down as a little gratuitous trolling and leave it at that. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

 

Please explain your motivations, I would love to hear.

@tim441 , @fazel 

Thanks for the really helpful information today, much appreciated. My direct email is glyn.hughes (at) gmail.com.

@derek-m it is.

In my case I started with low knowledge (tried to learn via google etc) and relied on the installer. In general (even now) I believe they did a decent job including heat loss calcs, recommendations and main installation.

But... significant failures were:

1. Controls installed in bathroom for installer convenience. But of course almost useless for internal temp controls using weather compensation. Overall I use WC with external temps only - and it's "ok". Would have been easy to locate Controls better and I may yet move them.

2. Controls were setup to mimic as far as possible the previous oil central heating. I.e. using same programmers, thermostats and high flow temperatures. No doubt reduced likelihood of callbacks but clearly useless in terms of maximising efficiency/SCOP etc.

3. No attempt at educating the customer on understanding how to maximise benefit, efficiency etc by using weather compensation and low flow temperatures. Written instructions and a verbal training session should be mandatory. Perhaps 90% could be standardised and a manufacturer/youtube video would be a great start. But the final 10% depends on specific customer circumstances inc house build, insulation, radiators, ufh, usage (wfh etc), controls, location, target temps, other renewables such as solar, batteries etc, even adding in some initial guidance on types of tariffs, TOU etc.

It seems most customers have to reinvent the wheel to gather core knowledge. or they give up and think their system is useless... putting up with costly & inefficient output.. or in some cases I know of having their ashp removed.

4. Other quotes and installers offered dreadful quotes on some or all aspects e.g  heat loss calcs and price.

5. Relative to what i saw from others I give my installers 4 out of 5. But due to failures above would have to mark them down to 3 only. The main thing in my case is almost all issues can be resolved - albeit an unnecessarily painful process.