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Help optimising my system!

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(@wh0am3ye)
Active Member Member
Joined: 3 weeks ago
Posts: 3
Topic starter  

Hi all,

New ASHP owner, trying to make the most of it but slightly overwhelmed by the steep learning curve and all the new information. Hoping to draw on the knowledge that seems to abound here to figure out how my system is working and how to make it work best for us.
We have an 8KW Ideal Logic Air with a 180L Pre-plumbed cylinder and a Halo Air smart controller. We also have 8 solar panels with 3.4kWp. We don't have a battery.
Through reading so far, my understanding is that I should set the heat pump to run 24/7, set my Halo Air as high as it will go, turn room influence off, and set the weather compensation curve as low as I can to make the house comfortable.
I've currently got the heat pump on 24/7, room influence at 0, Halo Air set to 30C and WC curve at 0.4.
With these settings, I'm finding that the temperature in my house is continuing to climb into the low 20's. A comfortable temperature for us would be around 18C, and given we've been living with an average temperature of around 8-12C for the last 6 months, we're finding 20+ a little unbearable!

My first question is, even with the room influence off, as I have the Halo set to 30, will it be trying to reach that temperature? Or is it essentially redundant?

My second question relates to Time of Use tariffs. We are with Octopus, we had been on Snug, due to having previously had some 40 year old storage heaters in a couple of rooms. As we no longer have them, I've moved to Cosy, but the peak hours between 4 and 7pm aren't great for cooking dinner, but I can deal with that if the overall cost will work out cheaper.

My second question, is it possible to run weather compensation and have the heat pump coming on mainly during the 8 off-peak hours? The Halo Air does this using comfort and set-back temperatures. Could I set the comfort temperature to 30C to force it to use weather comp and then the set back at say 15C (3C below what would be our comfortable temperature) to get it to switch off during the peak rate hours in the afternoon and the standard rate hours overnight? Or is there a better tariff given we don't have a battery to ride out the more expensive times?

Hopefully that makes some sense, and I look forward to understanding more what I'm playing with and how best to use it!

Thanks in advance!

This topic was modified 3 weeks ago by Mars
This topic was modified 3 weeks ago by Wh0am3ye

   
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cathodeRay
(@cathoderay)
Famed Member Moderator
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 2040
 

@wh0am3ye - welcome to the forum!

You appear to have grasped the basics cleanly and quickly, well done.

To answer you first question, the Halo or any room stat for that matter is largely redundant as a thermostat, instead we use it as an on /off control. A bit counter-intuitive, but think of setting it to 30°, as you have, is one way of setting it to be (always) on (unless you also chose to have a setback, see below).

To answer your second question, I'm not familiar with octopus's ToU tariffs but I definitely do use setbacks and the way we do this is as you say set the room stat (or whatever control you use) to something a bit lower than your desired room temp. This then becomes 'always off', but with a backstop, if the room temp goes below the setback setting then the heating will come on. Your proposed schedule where you have the room stat setting set low during the peak hours will achieve exactly what you want, the heat pump will be off during the peak hours, but will come back on when you want it to. You may need to tweak the set back temperature setting a bit, to make sure the heating doesn't come on during peak hours by setting the setback a bit lower.

The key point is to recognise that you are not using the room stat as a room stat, but as a timer. In effect this timer just happens to use the room temp setting as the 'trigger' to decide whether the heating should be on or off.    

Midea 14kW (for now...) ASHP heating both building and DHW


   
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(@judith)
Prominent Member Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 334
 

Keep turning the weather compensation parameter compensation parameter down until the house is at the right temperature for you.

Once that’s right you might need to add in some room influence and set the upper limit to ~22C to allow for solar heating at this time of year since if you’ve got south facing windows it could be the cause of the overheating.

I can’t answer the timed-controller question but it sounds logical.

Do you have a buffer tank? Is it piped as a 4 port (2 in  out) or a volumiser (2 pipes, one in one out)?

Welcome to your new hobby!

2kW + Growatt & 4kW +Sunnyboy PV on south-facing roof Solar thermal. 9.5kWh Givenergy battery with AC3. MVHR. Vaillant 7kW ASHP (very pleased with it) open system operating on WC


   
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(@ashp-bobba)
Reputable Member Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 105
 

Hello, well it looks like you have made a good start, there is an art to setting up periodic use as well as weather curve as you have to calculate or work out the recovery time, remember ASHP are looking to use the building fabric as a heat energy storage battery this is why they work so well as low and slow 24/7. You will need to consider seasonal heat loss, TOU tariff schedules and comfort, solar gain and so on for example, your recovery time will be shorter in spring than in the dead of winter. However there is a complete solution for this to save you having to do it manually, there are now many 3rd party software applications that can be added to quite a few ASHP brands, "you will need to do a bit of research to see what you want and which fits to your brand of ASHP" For example Haven Wise or Homely can interact with your, TOU tariff, weather curve, periodic us, seasonal adjustments and many other factors.

Some of the 3rd parties claim that what they cost can be off set in savings, I like to think that its more valuable in the fact that it works it all out for you, some of these 3rd party interfaces also allow your installer to have a back end so if the system has a problem they can remotely log in and take a look, perhaps saving you a call out fee once the installation warranty has finished.

With regards to the overall heating at 20 being a bit warm for you, rather than just reducing the weather curve you could also reduce the target flow temperature, for example, if the system was designed to run at 45 deg C flow temp to reach 21 Deg C room temps @ -3 you could set it for 44 Deg C target temp as this will reduce the output slightly based on your emitters and in turn should deliver a slightly lower room temp target. Note: if you change the target flow temperature it may effect the final room temperature more in the height of winter at -3 deg C but probably only slightly and you could always turn it back up that 1 deg in for the winter.     

I hope this is helpful.

 

This post was modified 3 weeks ago by ASHP-BOBBA

   
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(@wh0am3ye)
Active Member Member
Joined: 3 weeks ago
Posts: 3
Topic starter  

Thank you for your responses.
I think for the time being, I will manually adjust the desired temperature during the peak window, just until I get the WC curve set correctly. I'll be sure to keep an eye on the recovery time of the temperature after this evenings peak window to see how I can maybe use the timer in the future. I moved the WC curve down to 0.3 this morning as we settled at 20 degrees overnight, much better than the 21 the night before, but still far too hot. I shouldn't have to sleep with the windows and door open in March! 🤣 

I also took a note of the heat pump compressor starts this morning, to get an idea of how many cycles we're getting - picked up from another thread I was reading.

@judith  - I don't believe we have a buffer tank. We do get some solar gain in our kitchen diner, which also happens to have 2 large 3-panel radiators. I imagine I'll need to adjust the locksheilds on these in the future, but I'm holding off for the time being as it's a 1980's extention with large windows, in comparison to the rest of the house which is an 1850's Welsh stone cottage, so thick walls and small windows!

@ashp-bobba I've had a look at Havenwise and Homely, and sadly, neither supports Ideal Heat Pumps yet, so I will keep a look out for one that does, as they certainly seem like they would be helpful!


   
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(@judith)
Prominent Member Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 334
 

Great progress so far, keep going you’ll get there! Your Welsh cottage part will have a very long thermal time constant, as you probably already realise, but your large kitchen diner with big windows will cool off quickly as you try to coast the peak electric. But if you’re cooking despite the peak it will compensate.

Our pump had about 6 cycles today in the 22hrs so far, to give you a comparison. 

2kW + Growatt & 4kW +Sunnyboy PV on south-facing roof Solar thermal. 9.5kWh Givenergy battery with AC3. MVHR. Vaillant 7kW ASHP (very pleased with it) open system operating on WC


   
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