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ASHP sizing - value of Heat Transfer Coefficient

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Toodles
(@toodles)
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Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 2403
 

@jancold The PCM is heated up by a 3 kW element in the version I have (there are others where a high temperature heat pump can do the same thing instead), the unit itself is very well insulated and loses no more than 0.75 kWh of energy in 24 hours. When hot water is required, it passes through a length of pipework inside the PCM material and is heated to approx. 50- 55 degrees C - then to your tap / shower or whatever. (Rather like a Combi Gas Boiler might supply the hot water) I think if my memory serves that the PCM is heated up to 65 - 70 degrees C. and this is why an HT heat pump is required as an LT can’t raise the temperature to that required. We have a Sunamp supplied regulator on the output so that the water is supplied at 45 degrees C. for safety and comfort.

The energy can be stored in the PCM for days and the unit we have takes approx. 11 kWh of storage; sometimes, we don’t recharge for several days if it is dull (little solar PV) and the Agile price is too high for my Scrooge nature to allow it to run. The control wiring for the Sunamp is connected to a Myenergi Eddi and that indicates ‘Max Temp Reached’ when fully heated and then the control system monitors the temperature of the unit. The system may be a little ‘granular’ though as the LED status indicator shows ‘Full’ then a sort of ‘More than Half full’ , then ‘Half Full’ and then ‘Less than Half’ and finally ‘Empty’ there is also a ‘Mains Connected’ LED that indicates charging or at a standby status. This granularity worries some people a little I gather but I am happy with this as we rarely need more than 25% of the stored energy in a day - and the unit is only a quarter the volume of a conventional DHW tank and does not feature all that pipework that tanks seem to bristle with!

The system is also very unlikely to suffer from Legionella problems as water is not stored in any quantities at dangerous temperatures. As you might have detected, I rather like the system! Having very little space for a conventional tank went a very long way towards our decision to have a box in the airing cupboard and still have some room for the linen! Regards, Toodles.


Toodles, heats his home with cold draughts and cooks food with magnets.


   
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bontwoody
(@bontwoody)
Noble Member Contributor
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 960
 

@jancold To add to what @toodles has said, you can imagine the phase change material as something like candle wax, which will melt before the maximum temperature of the store is reached. A property called the latent heat of fusion means that a lot more energy is needed to raise the temperature between solid and liquid and so this is stored in the liquid material.

I would imagine that the material closest to the coil would solidify initially as it heats the water but might melt again as heat is transferred from the outer volume.

Thermino's are a good idea and small but also a bit pricy and as toodles says need to be heated higher than a cylinder would.


House-2 bed partial stone bungalow, 5kW Samsung Gen 6 ASHP (Self install)
6.9 kWp of PV
5kWh DC coupled battery
Blog: https://thegreeningofrosecottage.weebly.com/
Heatpump Stats: http://heatpumpmonitor.org/system/view?id=60


   
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Toodles
(@toodles)
Illustrious Member Contributor
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 2403
 

@bontwoody I might add that the control wiring indicates to Eddi that the temperature required by the PCM closest to the element has reached temperature - at which point, the system stops calling for power. The Eddi is set to (I think) 20 minutes of rest and then it will try again to see if the ‘local to the element’ material has dissipated the energy into the mass of the unit and cooled down sufficient to request more energy to heat the element further. I have observed this happening and noticed the Eddi apply more power after this ‘dissipation’ cycle. Regards, Toodles.


Toodles, heats his home with cold draughts and cooks food with magnets.


   
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Jancold
(@jancold)
Reputable Member Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 148
 

@toodles Thanks for the explanation I get it now as I had not realised the temp needed to charge it.


Daikin 6Kw ASHP.
MG4 EV
1926 Semi with loft and wall cavity insulation, all radiator.


   
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(@heatpumpme)
New Member Member
Joined: 1 week ago
Posts: 1
 

@toodles Hi, my friend recently made a video about heat pumps and heat transfer coefficients. It might be helpful for anyone interested in this topic to watch it. Any comments, questions, or feedback would be greatly appreciated.
You can visit this link to watch the video: 



   
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(@jamespa)
Illustrious Member Moderator
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 3790
 

Sorry, but I cant see what the point of this is unless its to take the mick from a serious topic (and possibly also of science).  Its not even funny because its far too long for a gag. I listened to the whole video.

If you can explain the point, I wont delete it.


This post was modified 6 days ago 2 times by JamesPa

4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.


   
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(@sheriff-fatman)
Reputable Member Member
Joined: 9 months ago
Posts: 150
 

Posted by: @jamespa

Sorry, but I cant see what the point of this is unless its to take the mick from a serious topic (and possibly also of science).  Its not even funny because its far too long for a gag. I listened to the whole video.

If you can explain the point, I wont delete it.

I'm a moderator on other, unrelated, forums and the combination of a 1st time poster bumping an old thread with a random link is pretty much the modus operandi of a spammer or a phishing attempt.  The weird "my friend" reference with regard to the video was a red flag too.  I didn't touch the YouTube link, although I don't see how that in itself could be a malicious link, but the entire post just has loads of red flags for me, FWIW.

 


130m2 4 bed detached house in West Yorkshire
10kW Mitsubishi Ecodan R290 Heat Pump - Installed June 2025, currently running via Havenwise.
6.3kWp PV, 5kW Sunsynk Inverter, 3 x 5.3kWh Sunsynk Batteries
MyEnergi Zappi Charger for 1 EV (Ioniq5) and 1 PHEV (Outlander)


   
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cathodeRay
(@cathoderay)
Illustrious Member Moderator
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2520
 

@sheriff-fatman, @jamespa — I have watched the video, at least part of it, and I don't think it is malign in any way, just someone who has made an attempt to explain something dear to his heart in a not very inspired way - not quite Brian Cox material yet, let alone David Attenborough. The post here is a bit clumsy as well, as the Sheriff hints, and no doubt 'my friend' and the poster are one and the same person, but all in all I wouldn't be inclined to delete it as apart from a degree of self-promotion, I don't think it has broken forum rules. Leaving it may also means the poster gets some feedback which he can take as he will.


Midea 14kW (for now...) ASHP heating both building and DHW


   
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Toodles
(@toodles)
Illustrious Member Contributor
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 2403
 

@cathoderay It was reminiscent of the BBC Open University science-based modules that used to be broadcast at unearthly hours of the night (some poor devils had to stay up and watch them live if they didn’t have one of those early video recorders!). I also felt that the acted scenes in the ‘Estate Agent’s office were rather wooden but at least the sound quality was good! (Sorry HeatPumpMe) Toodles.


Toodles, heats his home with cold draughts and cooks food with magnets.


   
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