Posted by: @Anonymous

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I was really interested in a wind turbine, but once I calculated the outputs, was way off being convinced. So 500kWh is give or take 1.5kWh a day. But to get that huge figure, you need zero disturbance of the wind, so ideally needs to be well away from houses and trees and also very high, otherwise the output does drop like a stone, turbulence kills effective output. Plus you will get inverter losses on any thing remaining.  Ditch that idea, would be my advise.

Ripple payback cost is reliant on electric prices going up, but if net zero is a real target, electric pricing has to come down and gas go up. Any forcing of wholesale pricing downwards hits the Ripple profits or payback. If electric pricing is unlinked from gas cost, and as more renewables come online who knows what will occur. I was thinking about it but fell off the fence to the no side.

 

Ripple is best viewed (because that's how it acts) as a hedge against higher electricity prices - if prices go up, Ripple does very well and helps offset those increases whereas if prices are low, Ripple will perform poorly (as an investment), but you are benefiting from low power prices which you need to factor in to any calculations. Trying to evaluate it as a return on investment is not necessarily the best way to view it.

I would put forward another alternative, and that is to hold shares in a wind farm (UKW) or solar farm (BSIF, FSFL, NESF) as traded on the stock market in an investment account or ISA. Each produce electricity and sell it to the grid (or companies via PPAs), and/or get paid for what they produce under government schemes (ROC, FIT, CFD etc), and use that cashflow to reinvest in more wind or solar assets and to pay their share holders a regular dividend. They are currently paying dividends of around 7-10% per year so that £1750 investment will produce an income of £122.50-£175 per year which you can put towards your energy bills. Further, the income is largely inflation-linked as the underlying government backed income is inflation-linked and power prices largely move with inflation. Such an investment also has the advantage that you can invest as little or as much as you want, whenever you want, so you are not limited to the number of solar panels you can fit on your roof or the number of wind turbines planning will allow you to erect at the end of the garden. Furthermore, each of those investments seeks to retain the real value of your capital so after 30 years you will hopefully still have your capital (through reinvestment of excess income), and not just a pile of rusting metal. Being held within an ISA, these investments are very tax efficient and provide regular income which can be used to offset (pay) energy bills.

I personally hold shares in all of the above, and the income generated each year more than covers my energy bills, plus I get to feel like I am contributing to achieving Net Zero.

@old_scientist good information 

@old_scientist that very interesting. Thanks, looks  like it might be the way to go 😁

I should add, being an investment, the value of your investment may rise or fall in value and that dividends are not guaranteed. Do your own research before making any investment.

Posted by: @toodles

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I have yet to hear of anyone reaping benefits from any wind turbine of any design that would be acceptable in any domestic environment

The turbines originally designed by Proven have been successfully deployed in many rural homesteads.
Proven themselves is no longer a trading company. They were hit badly by shaft failures when developing the higher-spec 15kW units.

The design was bought out by Kingspan, and is now available from SD Wind Energy, amongst others.

I would caution against the use of 'rooftop' turbines.
There is considerable force applied to the bolts which hold the mast/pole to the external wall. That invariably causes damage to chimneys and gable-ends.

DIY wind turbines have a pretty good record of success.
That's partly because the home-owner knows the design very well and is prepared to spend the time to get things right.

Hugh Piggott at Scoraig had considerable input into that field of expertise.

Just a note to say thanks for this thread. We are going ahead with Ripple today.

2,892 Watts, 7,000 kWh of electricity per year.

Feels like a really good long term investment in our energy which will give us energy and price security. If the price of energy drops, we won't save as much but at current rates my numbers tell me we will save roughly £1330 per year on an investment of £4965. And the term on this wind farm is 30 years rather than 25. 

Posted by: @marvinator80

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but at current rates my numbers tell me we will save roughly £1330 per year on an investment of £4965.

Hi can you go through how the numbers work through to the savings, keep reading Ribble website and I come away confused each time.

@johnmo

Retail Value Savings:

• The electricity generated by your share of the wind farm is credited directly against your electricity bill at the retail rate. This means that if you invest in enough energy to cover 4500 kWh per year, the savings on your bill would reflect the cost of 4500 kWh at the rate you would otherwise be paying to your energy supplier (e.g., 19p per kWh).

2. How It Works:

• Ripple Energy partners with specific energy suppliers who manage these credits. When the wind farm generates electricity, the equivalent amount is deducted from your bill as if you had consumed it from the grid. You effectively receive the full retail value of the energy you’ve invested in.

3. No Wholesale Rates:

• Since the credit is applied based on the retail value, there’s no impact from the wholesale market prices. You are benefiting directly from the electricity offset, meaning your savings are calculated at the same rate that you would otherwise pay on your electricity bill.

So what I understand this to mean is that if I currently pay 19p per unit to Octopus for 7000kWH then once the wind farm is operational, as a Ripple investor/shareholder I will no longer have to pay this. Through their partnership with Octopus, this 7000kWH will be deducted from my Octopus bill over the course of a year. 

@marvinator80 @Johnmo

Are you sure above those numbers? My quote was for a saving of £100 in the first year on a £1750 Investment. This was better than an additional battery or wind turbine and over 30 years assuming a 3% inflation rate the total return would be £4757.

Its worth noting that after 30 years your original investment is gone.

I do like Co Ops and will invest some in Ripple but Ive also gone down the route of buying shares in UK Solar and Wind companies. Obviously more risk but they seem to have good dividend payments (7-10%) and at the end you still have your original investment in shares.

@bontwoody 

Based on pure maths and forensic analysis of the documents, with AI double checking all my work, I think the estimates from Ripple are very conservative. I don't know why.

@marvinator80 Ill have another look then, I know you could adjust the returns based on different predicted scenarios.

@bontwoody I replied on another thread you don’t get retail value from ripple you only get what contract value ripple negotiate on an annual basis no different to any other solar or wind farm generator currently 3-4p for the newest ripple wind farms