Posted by: @jamesw

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the Random Number Generator appears to be unconnected with the Random Offset.

I agree with what you state.

I'm only concerned with the Randomised Offset to the Tariff Table.
And that is indeed placed into the ESME by the manufacturer when each unit is assembled, as you write.

I am gradually learning more about how these SMETS2 Specs have been interpreted as I hear from other parties.
There isn't a universal approach on which everyone agrees.

About 2 months ago I received a document stating that the RO can be read by Energy Suppliers across the WAN (ie via DCC).

That may well be true, but it doesn't bode well for those Suppliers who have issued incorrect bills to some of their customers.
They cannot use the excuse that they didn't know what the RO was for each meter!

I haven't yet been able to verify that a Supplier can read the RO.
Nor do I yet know if the RO can be read by an IHD, across the Home Area Network.

DESNZ does have some interest in this matter, and I am in communication with them.

But they don't seem to have access to the DNO engineers and data which I have.
So they are much less aware of the effects of surge demands on the (massive) 11kV network, or the LV supplies to our homes.

As I understand their present thinking, they don't see the RO as having any part to play in our future electricity supply.

Instead they want to

• impose other delays, such as already exist in 'Smart' EV Chargers (which aren't actually smart at all)
• construct a massive database which links customer accounts to the physical location of the meter, and then issue licences to Demand Side Response Agencies who can turn off domestic appliances using remote commands

How do we feel about Government-licensed agencies having that facility?

Do we foresee any problem with Government commissioning software to be built which can affect the amount we pay for our electricity?

@transparent   Octopus Energy (and, pehaps, other suppliers) offered 2 hours of free electricity on the morning of 24th November. Those people with home automation systems controlling their electricity demand are likely to have availed themselves of the opportunity.  I've read reports elsewhere of power cuts in some areas around the same time.  Is this evidence of your concerns or were the cuts simply coincidental?

@ianmk13 I don't know if these Octoplus Free Electricity offers are being made nationwide or restricted locationally.

I received the offer for 7-9am on 24th, and did indeed take the opportunity to replenish storage batteries.
I'm in SW England, and wind generation was then down the North Sea coast and along the north coast of Cornwall and Devon.

The national Transmission Grid operates with significant additional supply headroom, and I'd be surprised if the Octopus offer had any effect at that level.
Here's the Energy Mix for Supply over that period from Elexon, on which I've highlighted the Octoplus Offer

The dominant source was wind-generation, and that 2-hour period coincides with there being little electricity from Combined Cycle Gas Turbine plants.
So it was particularly 'green'.

If there was evidence of power-cuts during the Offer period, then they must've been localised on the Distribution Grid.

@transparent The grid supply was fine here in the South East of England during that time; Octopus provided me with nearly 20 kWh during the ‘Free Electricity’ period. As I only use grid power during the cheapest Cost rate, all power consumed during those 2 hours  was ‘above normal consumption’ 😊 Toodles.

Posted by: @toodles

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The grid supply was fine here in the South East of England during that time;

That depends on your perspective, and what you mean by "here"!

I don't suppose you took a snapshot of the Power Outage map for SE England at the time did you?

As an example, here's the Birmingham area Outage Map as it stands when I write this (Noon on 28th Nov)

If there were going to be power-cuts associated with excess demand due to the Octoplus Offer last Sunday, then it will have been at this localised level.

Lack of critical thinking going on. Was it free electricity sessions or a named storm bringing high winds and flooding that caused some localised power cuts...

Posted by: @meatballs

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Lack of critical thinking going on.

... and a lack of Meatballs earlier in this discussion.

Your wider perspective on events would be welcomed elsewhere across other topics on this Forum. 😀 

@transparent Well, when I say ‘here’ @transparent, I mean ‘here’ of course!😉. Joking asside, no, I didn’t happen to look at the details to which you refer.

How does one reconcile ‘free electricity’ sessions with possible strains on the localised grid network? I pose the question but have no idea beyond my method pf ‘hogging’ cheapest rates to charge my battery and thus avoiding placing any undue strain on the network when it is at its’ most vulnerable.

In my ignorance, I assume that such offers of cheaper (or free) power are made when the grid is best able to cope because the demand has been predicted to be at a low point and might otherwise result in shut downs in the generation dept. No doubt I suppose, even the best written programmes and AI servers will be capable of under / over estimating demand so it will never be easy to get it right? Regrets, Toodles. 

Posted by: @toodles

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I assume that such offers of cheaper (or free) power are made when the grid is best able to cope because the demand has been predicted to be at a low point and might otherwise result in shut downs in the generation dept.

It would be nice if there being lower existing demand on the Distribution Grid were being considered.
But the available evidence from NESO is that their main geographical referencing is done according to 'boundaries' on the 400kW (and 275kV) Transmission Grid.

They define those boundaries according to existing known constraints.
Ie there's only so much juice one can squirt along a conductor with a particular cross-sectional area.

Although SE England seems to have more than its fair share of Boundaries, it is the ones in Central Scotland which are more significant.

Below B5 is the 400kV Transmission Grid which supplies England.

Above B4 the Transmission Grid is run by a different company, Scottish Hydro Electric Transmission, and is almost entirely 275kV.
This collects generation from the widespread hydro-electric generating sites in the Highlands.

It is very often the case that the Highlands hydro-electric generators will offer electricity to NESO which can't be accepted due to the power constraints on conductors crossing B5.
NESO must then pay those generators compensation for the amount which they curtail.
That increases electricity bills for consumers south of the border.

We're drifting a log way from the topic of Incorrect Billing.

A long time has passed and after a short lived flirtation with Tomato Energy I've now landed on So Energy for my EV/battery tariff.

There's some chat on Facebook regarding So Energy's exact off peak hours and how they relate to GMT/BST.

In any case, when investigating this I stumbled upon:
https://justsoyouknow.so.energy/posts/2110564-what-hours-are-my-day-and-night-times

Which has this interesting tidbit:

"The Night register's precise start times may vary up to 15 mins from the expected start time, i.e. if it should start at 00:30 then it may actually start at any point from 00:15am - 00:45am. If it is greater than 30 mins out please get in touch so we can investigate this further."

Hmms!

How odd @korwraith  - that functionality being offered by So Energy can't be based on the Tariff Matrix in the Smart Meter.

As we've discussed earlier in this topic, the Smart Meter only has the concept of the tariff switching period being delayed.

That means So Energy have implemented their own variable (or randomisation) in order to diminish grid surges,
... which is a great start
... but only if it interacts with their in-house Billing System software to ensure that customers are correctly charged.

That's technically possible, but the system then suffers by no longer having the Smart Meter at the heart of implementing a tariff.

It lacks transparency.
How could a consumer know that So Energy's software is correctly applying an off-peak rate if it's being done independently?

This is where the Regulator should be involved.

Ofgem are meant to approve tariffs being offered by Suppliers whom they license.
But we're not seeing evidence that it's happening.

I have a low level of confidence that So Energy will have got the billing implemented correctly.