Posted by: @johnmo

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Posted by: @transparent

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@toodles - you might want to check @judith's credentials before posting further on that point!

Even the text at the foot of her posts gives an indication of high technical competence 😎 

What's all this nonsense about? Are you saying people are not worthy of replying, because someone is investigating getting an ASHP. 

No, that's not what was said. @transparent was warning @toodles that his post might have been encroaching on "teaching grandma to suck eggs". @toodles then gave a perfectly reasonable explanation as to why he might have missed some pertinent information and confirmed that that was absolutely not his intention. No nonsense; merely a quick exchange between forum members that was given, received and responded to in the co-operative spirit that was intended.

I do have one other question if you all aren't fed up of me yet?  I know zoning is not the best way to run heat pump heating and will not be zoning during the daytime.  However at night we do keep doors pushed tight-to (not physically shut, but so there is no gap) for noise reasons (snoring, bathroom visits, occasional coughing etc). So I guess that means it will be zoned at night?  Will this adversely affect the efficiency? 

I will add there are only 4 internal doors, 1 of which can stay open only if the tank/pump is not too noisy. However the bathroom door opens outwards into the hall so that is always pushed to. (don't ask, they built it with the toilet behind the door so if open inward it would hit)

@ellyse Zoning refers to shutting off part of the heating system emitters e.g. having thermostats closing off UFH loops in certain rooms or TRV's closing off radiators.  Its common practice to want cooler bedrooms at night so TRV's are often used to ensure the rads in bedrooms don't come on overnight even if downstairs does.

Closing doors internal doors isn't going to make any appreciable difference to heat pump efficiency as the rooms aren't thermally insulated from one another.

@gary Thank you. I thought it referred to preventing full air flow between all rooms. I was wrong 🙂    

I will add this is a bungalow so no downstairs. 

@ellyse No ‘upstairs’ either!😉 Toodles.

@ellyse feel free to keep asking! Especially when you get responses from surveyors that you want help to understand or are not convinced by. 

Posted by: @ellyse

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I do have one other question if you all aren't fed up of me yet?

We would like to see a lot more than just one other question @ellyse  😀 

You are in an area where there a lot of other new installations of heat-pumps and solar panels.
Others householders will have similar questions.
In time we hope that they too will be directed to this topic and pick up the answers they need.

You will notice that respondents here come from a variety of backgrounds, and will therefore view your installation differently.

I tend to 'work' with technology and regulations which don't yet exist. 😎 
When I meet with National Grid, we're discussing strategies which will be implemented a decade or more into the future.

For example, when I first raised the issue of battery storage with you, I wasn't just considering the tariffs that are available now, but those which will need to evolve in the coming years as we migrate towards more energy from renewable sources.

I also check what are the characteristics of electricity flow in your area of Britain.

Rochdale is an area (N4) which is supplied from a National Transmission Grid operating at 275kV (red lines), rather than the more common 400kV (blue).
It suffers from high-voltages in summer due to lower demand and long transmission lines from generation sites.

Its total electricity demand will be growing at a faster rate than that of local generation from renewable sources.
Until 2035 its generation capacity will be falling, arrested in the next decade by imports from large off-shore wind-farms:

In the histogram above, blue is electricity from low-carbon (renewable) assets, orange from storage, and grey is fossil-fuel sources.

As energy policy shifts away from Government and becomes the remit of the new Independent Energy System Operator, we can expect to see Nodal Pricing introduced. That will offer lower prices for electricity consumption in regions where there is a surplus of renewable generation. Rochdale is unlikely to be in a position to enjoy that.

To allow you to continue running your heat-pump, it becomes increasingly advantageous for Rochdale homes to have their own battery storage. A Time-of-Use tariff would allow you to run the heat-pump from stored energy during the times of day when prices are highest.

I realise that you didn't ask that question!

But I thought you'd appreciate the insight into the likely future costs of energy as you evaluate how you will fund the long-term running costs of your new heat-pump.

@transparent Really sorry but I have not clue about kV or redlines/bluelines and what it all means. Not sure if I've said yet but I'm 65yr old and not technically minded. I worked for NHS. I'm trying to understand everything that's posted here but that last one stumped me. Sorry

My apologies @ellyse - I was clearly gong too deep there!

The only aspect you will need to bear in mind is that there can be significant costs in running a heat-pump.
It's using electricity throughout the whole day at whatever price per kWh your tariff offers.

You can reduce the cost by buying in electricity when it's cheaper...
provided you have a battery in which to store it.

At present 97% of the electricity which I use from the grid costs me less than 9p per unit.
The standard (daytime) rate is 22.2p.

I simply import electricity and store it to use during the rest of the day.

There's another topic here where @david999 talks about adding more solar panels.
They connect to an inverter which can accept a storage battery (but doesn't have to).

Here's a photo of David's inverter, which is similar to what your installer intends fixing on your wall.

That inverter is model SPH3600TL and retails for around £1000.

An equivalent inverter without the ability to directly connect a battery is the Growatt MIN3600-TL-XH, which costs around £580.

That £420 difference would be a lot less for an installer buying at wholesale prices (excl VAT) of course.

Even so, it's not a great deal of money when compared against the overall cost of what's proposed for your bungalow.

Please let us know what model of inverter they intend putting into your home.
It should be written on the paperwork you're asking for.

@ellyse the requirement for my installation was to have 10mm gaps under all the doors to allow circulation and trickle vents fitted to the windows. Condensation is the real enemy in modern homes.  You likely will get extractors fitted as well, but please look at the thread relating to my install because it was a train wreck , as was the cavity install and the solar.   So get yourself up to speed on what should be and any doubts post photos on here.

@transparent they wont fit those designer rads, I had a load of them and had to bin them, they said the heat efficiency was poor, but mine had no convectors on them and you may get ones with them, but on a government grant you might struggle. One thing that definitely is worth considering is a thermal solar panel and they should fit the solar cylinder in place of the standard one if you ask. If you ask for an inverter that suits batteries then they should give you that as well, batteries are the way to save money.

Certainly if you can get an inverter which will take a battery (later) then that would be great, and a saving for later.

We have solar thermal (from years ago when it was the only option) and it’s very good. We only need to top up with an immersion for 20minutes maximum in the summer. You can get something called a solar diverter (an electric box) which heats your hot water using your immersion heater when you have enough solar and it measures the solar and switches to immersion instead of exporting any excess solar.

If it comes free say yes to solar thermal instead of a diverter and you will get the modified hot water tank for it instead.