@iantelescope

It may be useful if I explain the objectives, so that you can better understand why we request certain data.

The room thermostat has now been taken out of use, so the heat pump is being controlled solely by its own controller. By monitoring the OAT the heat pump controller is calculating the required LWT to achieve the desired IAT, which it does with reference to the WC curve.

So to be able to ascertain what is happening, we need a measurement of the OAT, IAT, the LWT and RWT.

Because the various temperatures change quite slowly it is necessary for a great deal of patience, and the need to resist the urge to make changes before all the data has been collected.

If the actual IAT is higher than the desired value, it will be necessary to lower the WC curve, but again this must be carried out in a slow and calculated manner. I would therefore suggest that you follow the instructions provided by James or myself, and not make any other form of change without at least discussing it first.

@derek-m  & @jamespa

Buffer Tank:

I will shut the buffer tank.

House and outside Temperatures:

I  will build  another pair of Arduino's each fitted with three more DS18B20. 

Last night the outside temperatures started at +14.1 C at 1500 falling linearly to +11.1 C at 7 am the following morning.

Medical Condition :

Born with only one carotid artery and having a triple heart bypass 12 years ago,  I must keep a high body temperature.

I have , consequently , set the Water Law coordinates to [+15:+35] and [_-5:+50].

Is this too much , or, too little? A water Temperature of 35 C when the outside Temperature is +15 C gives a 22.5 C Room Temperature with a reasonable Power and therefore rise time.

Outing->

Power ,with the resultant Rise Time is important,  if , when  leaving  the house I press the Outing-> button reducing the house, pipe water  and hot water Temperatures in an attempt to save electricity, I subsequently reenter the house only to experience an unacceptable delay before an adequate temperature is reached.

What do I do now ??

Being concerned, last night , about the continual Motor Start STOP , or "short Cycling", Do I keep the Thermostat or Not?

 Is this damaging the motors?

What is your definition of Short cycling:

DECC in their 2012 report say that an average  Run Time of less than 6 minutes with an average  cycle time of less than 8 minutes is "short cycling". 

ian

@iantelescope

Posted by: @iantelescope

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Buffer Tank:

I will shut the buffer tank.

Good

Posted by: @iantelescope

↑

House and outside Temperatures:

I  will build  another pair of Arduino's each fitted with three more DS18B20. 

Last night the outside temperatures started at +14.1 C at 1500 falling linearly to +11.1 C at 7 am the following morning.

Not sure why but if you wish to go ahead

Posted by: @iantelescope

↑

Medical Condition :

Born with only one carotid artery and having a triple heart bypass 12 years ago,  I must keep a high body temperature.

I have , consequently , set the Water Law coordinates to [+15:+35] and [_-5:+50].

Is this too much , or, too little? A water Temperature of 35 C when the outside Temperature is +15 C gives a 22.5 C Room Temperature with a reasonable Power and therefore rise time.

Why have you changed the water law coordinates.  The ones Derek proposed gave you a stable house temperature of 23C which is close to the 22.5C you now tell us you want (in fact need).  Stable =  maximum efficiency.

Please put the water law conditions back to the ones Derek gave you otherwise you are unnecessarily increasing your costs by ~30%

Posted by: @iantelescope

↑

Outing->

Power ,with the resultant Rise Time is important,  if , when  leaving  the house I press the Outing-> button reducing the house, pipe water  and hot water Temperatures in an attempt to save electricity, I subsequently reenter the house only to experience an unacceptable delay before an adequate temperature is reached.

Dont. 

The amount saved, unless you are away for more than a day, is small and the extra energy you need to operate at a higher flow temperature in the way you describe above will absolutely certainly outweigh this.  

Fine tuning of this kind should be considered only once proper stable operation at the desired temperature has been achieved, and only be slight.  You need to forget most of what you have learned about how to operate boilers (most of which was anyway wrong even for boilers).

Posted by: @iantelescope

↑

What do I do now ??

Being concerned, last night , about the continual Motor Start STOP , or "short Cycling", Do I keep the Thermostat or Not?

No you dont keep the thermostat, leave it shorted out.

You need to be patient and stick with this for several days even weeks, not try to extrapolate conclusions before things have properly stabilised, otherwise you are back eventually to where we were two days ago and indeed 67 pages ago.

In summary

1. Put the WC coordinates BACK to the ones @derek-m gave you

2. Take the buffer out of circuit

3. Dont touch the 'outing' mode unless you go away for more than a day.

4. Leave the thermostat shorted out

5. Report results again tomorrow

If you are not prepared to do this then neither I nor anyone else can help you.

@iantelescope

I'm sorry to hear of your medical condition, we will try to keep you warm. What is your desired IAT?

Can you please post the settings of FSV 1031, 1032, 1041 and 1042. Also FSV 2011, 2012, 2021, 2022, 2031, 2032 and 2041.

The short cycling may be due to the buffer tank being in use, so see what happens once it is isolated.

Posted by: @derek-m

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@iantelescope

I'm sorry to hear of your medical condition, we will try to keep you warm. What is your desired IAT?

Can you please post the settings of FSV 1031, 1032, 1041 and 1042. Also FSV 2011, 2012, 2021, 2022, 2031, 2032 and 2041.

The short cycling may be due to the buffer tank being in use, so see what happens once it is isolated.

Posted by: @iantelescope

↑

I have , consequently , set the Water Law coordinates to [+15:+35] and [_-5:+50].

Is this too much , or, too little? A water Temperature of 35 C when the outside Temperature is +15 C gives a 22.5 C Room Temperature with a reasonable Power and therefore rise time.

Doesn't this answer your first question, around 22-23?

@derek-m I agree with your request for FSVs (I had considered asking but decided no to in view of what ian just posted).  Do you agree with my points 1-5 above (otherwise we are back where we started!)

@jamespa

You are probably correct.

I'm trying to locate the settings (if they exist) that detail how high above required LWT or RWT the water temperature needs to go before the compressor is stopped and the reverse when the water cools. Have you seen any such settings?

@iantelescope 

To summarise points/requests made by @derek-m and me:

1. We are sorry to hear about your medical condition and will try to keep you warm.

2.  Please confirm that 22-23 is your desired room temperature (you seem to say this but please confirm).

3. The suggestions you make above for further changes are going backwards.  You need to forget almost every you have learned about controlling boilers (most of which was wrong even for boilers).  In my post above I explain why, but in summary please

   a. Put the WC coordinates BACK to the ones @derek-m gave you (15:25; -5:45) (this assumes your target room temperature is 22-23C)

   b. Take the buffer out of circuit

   c. Dont touch the 'outing' mode unless you go away for more than a day.  It will cost you money to do so!

   d. Leave the thermostat shorted out

   e. Report results again tomorrow

4. Please post the settings of FSV 1031, 1032, 1041 and 1042. Also FSV 2011, 2012, 2021, 2022, 2031, 2032 and 2041.

@iantelescope

Ian,

So that we can better understand what is happening within your system, could you please mark up your schematic diagram with the location of the sensors that you are using to produce the graphs.

@jamespa & @derek-m

Hi James,

Temperatures:

I would like to live at a  constant temperature of 22.5 +/- 1 C.

Current,  Thermal Problems:

Current temperatures quickly falling here ~13.1 C and falling. 

The Heat Pump was unable to increase my living room Quickly enough to counter the cold.

I have temporarily returned to the [+15:+35] and [-5:50 C] and set the Water Law offset to +3 C to speed matters..

Temperatures have returned to 22.5  C.

Field values :

1031 57

1032  25

1041 23

1042 16

2011 15   ( Samsung Joule Recommendation)

2012  -5  ( Samsung Joule Recommendation -5 or -6 for Scotland , -3  or -4 for England)

2022 35   ( your setting 25 )

2023 45

2035 35

2036 55

2041 WL1 =  Water Law 1 = Floor =  UFH ( Under floor Heating)

2041 WL2 = Water Law 2  = FCU =  Fan Control Unit

I will return the Heat Pump settings 2011 through 2036 to your settings tomorrow.

The motors are running quietly for the moment.

Will try again tomorrow.

ian

@iantelescope Thanks for the data and confirming desired room temp.  The fact you wish to live at a constant temperature is good news and a good match to what heat pumps are good at.  I will look at it in further detail shortly however in the mean time regarding:

Posted by: @iantelescope

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The Heat Pump was unable to increase my living room Quickly enough to counter the cold.

I have temporarily returned to the [+15:+35] and [-5:50 C] and set the Water Law offset to +3 C to speed matters..

Temperatures have returned to 22.5  C.

1. Please post power and (if you have it) temperature graphs for the relevant period so we can understand why.  If there is anything worth noting about the period when 'the heat pump was unable to increase my living room quickly enough' please tell us.  (If WC is adjusted correctly and the radiator correctly sized you shouldn't need to do what you say you have done so long as the heat pump remains switched on and demand for heat is enabled)

2. Did you turn the heat pump off eg using 'outing mode' at any point?

3. Has your living room radiator got a TRV and if so is it set to maximum?  Are any other TRVs (if fitted) turned down.  If so please turn them up to max for now.

4. Did the temperature in other rooms follow a different curve to the temperature in the living room

@jamespa 

House cooling:

I disconnected the shorting wire at 1400 today while keeping the [+15:25] Water Law settings.

The Water Temperature operated between 24 and 30 C being set to operate between 25 and 30 C.

I left to go for an optical appointment returning at 1700.

The Water Temperature having dropped to 20 C by 1700 loosing much of the  house residual heat.

I then reset the [+15:25 ] to my original [+15:35] again without any house temperature increase.

Finally, I increased the Water Law offset to +3 C with the resulting leap in Temperature from 20 C to 36 C.

My Room , being still cold, I started a 600 Watt Electric fire finally reaching 22.5 C room temperature.

The power taken during this episode was :

Showing no power consumed between 1500 and 1730.

Outside temperature still falling .....12.7 C.

Conclusion:

Any heating system must have sufficient power to increase the room Temperature in a reasonable time following a break in the energy supply.

A backup 1.5 kw Immerser heater element  inserted into the Buffer perhaps ?

@iantelescope

Which shorting wire did you disconnect and why did you do so?