Help me optimise my ASHP Pipework
I've got a Nibe F2040 ASHP which has been installed for over a year now.
Whilst trying to optimise the system I've wondered if the buffer is causing me issues.
See attached drawing of my system. I have noticed that the pipework at point '1' is cooler than at point '2' and '3'.
The PWM motor is controlled by the Heat Pump to maintain a deltaT and the other 2 pumps are fixed speed (currently setting 2).
Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can better match the circulation pumps to the HP, or how I can prevent the mixing in the buffer.
I'm tempted to ask my installer to add a couple of valves to the top and bottom of the buffer so I can try isolating this completely?
I would suggest that you check your schematic, since it appears to make little sense. A buffer tank would normally have at least 4 connections, 2 in and 2 out. I also don't understand why pipe '1' would be cooler than pipes '2' and '3', if the direction of flow is as shown.
There is often an arrow on the pump body to indicate the direction of flow.
The schematic is correct as drawn and the buffer is Tee'd off the pipework that then goes towards the other 2 pumps.
Apologies pipe '1' was meant to say warmer not cooler.
What is the temperature difference?
Looking at the schematic, I suspect that the combined flow rate through the two pumps on pipes '2' and '3' is greater than the pump on pipe '1'. This will probably have the effect of drawing the cooler water in the return pipe, through the buffer tank, and hence causing it to mix and cool the water from the heat pump. Try reducing the speed of the pumps on pipes '2' and '3' to see if this increases the temperature in the aforementioned pipes.
@luke remove the buffer and it will work properly. The schematic is not a Nibe 2040 configuration. There is no need for the buffer. If you have a blending valve and pump on your under floor manifold, this should be removed and, firstly, I would try to run the system on a single temperature with the internal sensor to control the house temperature, if that does not have adequate control, then set up 2 separate zones through the controller.
Director at Heacol Consultants ltd
Posted by: @derek-mWhat is the temperature difference?
Looking at the schematic, I suspect that the combined flow rate through the two pumps on pipes '2' and '3' is greater than the pump on pipe '1'. This will probably have the effect of drawing the cooler water in the return pipe, through the buffer tank, and hence causing it to mix and cool the water from the heat pump. Try reducing the speed of the pumps on pipes '2' and '3' to see if this increases the temperature in the aforementioned pipes.
I have slowed the pumps down to speed 1 and will report back. I'm not sure of the temperature difference, but it was noticeable by hand. I have access to a thermal camera so I'll get hold of this.
Posted by: @heacol@luke remove the buffer and it will work properly. The schematic is not a Nibe 2040 configuration. There is no need for the buffer. If you have a blending valve and pump on your under floor manifold, this should be removed and, firstly, I would try to run the system on a single temperature with the internal sensor to control the house temperature, if that does not have adequate control, then set up 2 separate zones through the controller.
I agree that ultimately I want the buffer removed or at least put in series as I don't think it has any benefit and we should have sufficient volume in the circuits.
There is no blending valve on the UFH manifold and I run the whole system in WC using the internal sensor to 'adapt' the curve. All TRVS open and heating circulation pump thermostat set as a max stop limit only.
Looking at the below schematic, my system is I believe a similar setup to this, excluding CP6 and EB1 and any associated valves / pipework. CP5 is shown as the buffer vessel (which in my case is a Nibe UKV 20-40)
When looking at that installation manual for the UKV it doesn't actually show my configuration with the buffer, which I would say is different to the SMO20 installer manual screenshot?
Here are a couple of pictures of my setup before it was finished and insulated.
@luke Your valve is fine, remove the items circled and you will have very good performance. You have plenty of system volume for the heat pump.
Director at Heacol Consultants ltd
@heacol thanks for this. I will take these comments back to my installer.
May I ask why you would remove the TF1 filter for a strainer? Is this just to improve flow? Will there be other detrimental effects?
Also I presume you are saying that the system will run from just the charge pump as you are suggesting removal of both heating medium circulation pumps. (I like this idea as it will reduce base load, but I expect my installer will be hesitant to recommend this considering he installed both!)
@luke TF1 filter for a strainer? Is this just to improve flow? Will there be other detrimental effects? just to improve flow and stop parasitic losses. It will have no detrimental effect. It can be put back in parallel with the strainer if you are worried.
The installer will probably balk at removing them, but you are the customer.
Director at Heacol Consultants ltd
- 21 Forums
- 1,962 Topics
- 42.6 K Posts
- 54 Online
- 2,275 Members
Join Us!
Heat Pump Dramas?
Thinking about installing a heat pump but unsure where to start? Already have one but it’s not performing as expected? Or are you locked in a frustrating dispute with an installer or manufacturer? We’re here to help.
✅ Pre-Installation Planning
✅ Post-Installation Troubleshooting
✅ Performance Optimisation
✅ Complaint Support (Manufacturer & Installer)
Latest Posts
-
RE: Towel rails. An unexpected final hurdle
We have both Normal Rad for heating the room and then a...
By IRMartini , 33 minutes ago
-
RE: Newbie out of her depth – Samsung AE120RXYDEG 12kW heat pump
@majordennisbloodnok Absolutely! You only have to look...
By BAMi , 40 minutes ago
-
RE: Heat Pump Sizing & Installation Costs
Perhaps useful to have installed date too? To get conte...
By Tim441 , 3 hours ago
-
RE: What is the best strategy for operating a very oversized heat pump?
Something else... that works for some people... LG ha...
By Tim441 , 3 hours ago
-
RE: Setback savings - fact or fiction?
@cathoderay I see you are continuing to misquote from t...
By SUNandAIR , 4 hours ago
-
RE: Samsung Gen 7 R290 12kW is not behaving how I expected
So I turned my thermostats down last night And w...
By Joshua , 4 hours ago
-
RE: SolarPV tables / online calculator
I'd be interested what others find whilst using that we...
By Majordennisbloodnok , 5 hours ago
-
Volumisers in Heat Pump Systems: Does Placement Matter?
The debate over buffer tanks in heat pump systems has b...
By Mars , 6 hours ago
-
RE: F.788 Building circuit pump reports internal fault - Vaillant Arotherm
Guess I have to wait for engineer visit. I really hope ...
By jeegnesh , 17 hours ago
-
RE: Act now to defer the UK road tax increase on EVs
@majordennisbloodnok Damn right sir. my attempt at iron...
By Jancold , 20 hours ago
-
RE: ASHP and heating issues in new build house
That’s good gives you more capacity. It made me think, ...
By Terry1812 , 21 hours ago
-
RE: Seewet manhole cover within r290 exclusion zone
Thanks! I asked Vaillant, and they say I should be fi...
By dbrb2 , 23 hours ago
-
Looking for the Grant Aerona 3 setting to turn off completely at 20 OAT
I'm running my Aerona 3 on WC and the 'warm end of that...
By damonc , 1 day ago
-
RE: Do I just go with the lowest quote for my heat pump?
So after signing in Sept in two weeks the install may s...
By Jancold , 1 day ago
-
RE: Victorian Semi Retrofit / Extension ASHP and UFH Advice
When you are renovating is always a good time, as it ma...
By JamesPa , 1 day ago
-
RE: Just one room not reaching desired temperature
Looks like this issue is now resolved. Aira installed a...
By ChandyKris , 1 day ago
-
There have been several people on the OpenEnergyMonitor...
By RobS , 2 days ago
-
RE: Say hello and introduce yourself
Good point @jamespa But that probably strengthens @ch...
By Transparent , 2 days ago
-
RE: Visit a Heat Pump sessions.
Congratulations @toodles, that's a fantastic result. We...
By Old_Scientist , 2 days ago
Latest Topics
-
Heat Pump Sizing & Installation Costs
By Mars 5 hours ago
-
Volumisers in Heat Pump Systems: Does Placement Matter?
By Mars 6 hours ago
-
SolarPV tables / online calculator
By MichelleC 13 hours ago
-
By Toodles 2 days ago