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Ecodan Long Cycling and AA behaviour in one day.

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(@sunandair)
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This is a recording of one day operation of an Ecodan 8.5, reviewing new settings in an attempt to extend the cycling period during milder weather (13c to 7c).

I have used the MELCloud hourly record and marked up the changing room temperatures (IAT) and manual changes to target room temperatures. These have been written on the hourly graphs to produce a timeline of alteration so as the room and outside temperatures have changed. 8am to 9pm.

The reason for doing this was to experiment with new monitoring period settings and understand Auto adaptive behaviour. And hopefully some users might also find the results useful. The graphs start at 8am yesterday.

4B4EE891 E13F 4FFD 8CC3 4892C78421B5
511C3E12 C4DE 4AEC 8C95 ED044A8771C2
25A030E3 82A1 43D8 B5F6 2D9E60B2E46F
C669B205 D01D 4232 BCBE 69E272AD0FB7

The next 4 hours

C0C00BF7 7769 4C0E BF91 73FB2537FA4A
116345A7 04F4 46C1 9340 09E499B9DD07
35523E22 1816 4181 BBFC 604109DFB425

I will post the next batch on a separate post


   
Derek M reacted
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(@sunandair)
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Out of sequence


   
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(@sunandair)
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To be sent Later


   
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(@derek-m)
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Posted by: @sunandair

This is a recording of one day operation of an Ecodan 8.5, reviewing new settings in an attempt to extend the cycling period during milder weather (13c to 7c).

I have used the MELCloud hourly record and marked up the changing room temperatures (IAT) and manual changes to target room temperatures. These have been written on the hourly graphs to produce a timeline of alteration so as the room and outside temperatures have changed. 8am to 9pm.

The reason for doing this was to experiment with new monitoring period settings and understand Auto adaptive behaviour. And hopefully some users might also find the results useful. The graphs start at 8am yesterday.

4B4EE891 E13F 4FFD 8CC3 4892C78421B5
511C3E12 C4DE 4AEC 8C95 ED044A8771C2
25A030E3 82A1 43D8 B5F6 2D9E60B2E46F
C669B205 D01D 4232 BCBE 69E272AD0FB7

The next 4 hours

C0C00BF7 7769 4C0E BF91 73FB2537FA4A
116345A7 04F4 46C1 9340 09E499B9DD07
35523E22 1816 4181 BBFC 604109DFB425

I will post the next batch on a separate post

This is excellent data, and just goes to prove that a correctly optimised system can operate in an efficient and effective manner.

 


   
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(@sunandair)
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Joined: 1 year ago
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Topic starter  
F7A739AC 8873 4338 864B 797DCA65D036
53BA4044 94ED 4023 9ACF E1C52392B307
E75FFFE0 0A65 47FC 8D16 26FC20407723
10DECC14 A88A 449C 9E9D 23CFB47EBFBF
6F8E8E13 22EA 4D03 AB9D C6BF628C701C
29E5C194 1167 4E5E A2A6 E83A3D18DD73

Towards the evening the rapidly dropping outside temperature appears to make the system react and over shoot the target temperature by one degree. 

 


   
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(@derek-m)
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Posted by: @sunandair
F7A739AC 8873 4338 864B 797DCA65D036
53BA4044 94ED 4023 9ACF E1C52392B307
E75FFFE0 0A65 47FC 8D16 26FC20407723
10DECC14 A88A 449C 9E9D 23CFB47EBFBF
6F8E8E13 22EA 4D03 AB9D C6BF628C701C
29E5C194 1167 4E5E A2A6 E83A3D18DD73

Towards the evening the rapidly dropping outside temperature appears to make the system react and over shoot the target temperature by one degree. 

 

I think that the increase in IAT may be due to the WC curve not being fully optimised.

My understanding is that in AA mode the controller responds primarily to the WC, with fine tuning from the AA in response to changes in IAT. Because changes in IAT occur slowly, correction by AA is also very slow, so may not be able to respond quickly if the WC is overreacting.

The final chart does show that the AA appears to be pulling back the LWT and reducing the DT in an effort to lower the IAT.

As a test, you could try switching off AA for a period to see how well the system copes operating in just WC mode, then compare this with AA mode. 

 


   
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(@sunandair)
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@derek-m thanks for your comments… yes there could be a need to change the WC. I’ve not changed it since we removed the LLH. I’m also conscious that our AA SETUP is still learning since we’ve not had any rapid drops in outdoor temperature since we started using it again. Last night had quite a fast drop in temp. 

I’ll let you know if any adjustments change things. 👍🏻


   
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(@kev-m)
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I was going to start a new topic but I'll join this one if that's OK.  I've been running AA for about a year and am pretty happy with it.  It uses about the same amount as energy as WC, maybe even a bit less.  AA COP is worse than WC but then it's not running for as long.  Below are two similar days; one on WC and one on AA.  I get almost no cycling on AA.  However, LWT is higher than WC and like you, IAT overshoots by as much as 1.5 degrees.  It does chase target IAT quite aggressively, something I'd like to avoid.  BTW I have 2 zones; I have them set to do the same thing but because the use different temperature sensors they are not always quite in sync.  I'm sure you can tell which one is which...

Screenshot 2023 10 30 13.08.10
Screenshot 2023 10 30 13.13.45

     


   
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(@fazel)
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(@kev-m)
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(@sunandair)
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Posted by: @kev-m

I was going to start a new topic but I'll join this one if that's OK.  I've been running AA for about a year and am pretty happy with it.  It uses about the same amount as energy as WC, maybe even a bit less.  AA COP is worse than WC but then it's not running for as long.  Below are two similar days; one on WC and one on AA.  I get almost no cycling on AA.  However, LWT is higher than WC and like you, IAT overshoots by as much as 1.5 degrees.  It does chase target IAT quite aggressively, something I'd like to avoid.  BTW I have 2 zones; I have them set to do the same thing but because the use different temperature sensors they are not always quite in sync.  I'm sure you can tell which one is which...

Hi Kev, Glad you can join in the discussion. We have made some changes to our system so it looks like we can get some better cop outcomes and so far it’s looking really promising. I think last time we spoke I said I was hoping to break into the low cop4’s. However as you may know the MELCloud system has regularly added 2.8kwh to the daily energy usage data so we can’t fully rely on the data it produces. However notwithstanding that, the past 10 days we have had 4 days at cop4.0, a cop4.71 and a cop4.25 the remainder were 3.5 and 3.8. We are comforted that if the data system has added fictional energy usage then our data will be under reporting its efficiency and not over reporting.

Looking at you’re charts it’s  clear the AA chart has less cycling. This may be due to the interval you’ve set for data gathering. I say that because I had mine set to every 20 minutes and it cycled twice per hour. I now have it set to 30 minutes (as per the above graphs) so it may run for a full 30 minutes before varying it’s output or stopping.

After a year, do you have any clearer understanding of the specific function of the over-temperature and under temperature parameter? I have shortened my temperature parameters.

interested to hear what’s you thoughts!

 


   
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(@sunandair)
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Posted by: @fazel

Use translate in browser.

1. https://www.haustechnikdialog.de/Forum/p/2913017

2. https://www.haustechnikdialog.de/Forum/p/2913032

3. https://www.haustechnikdialog.de/Forum/p/2913145

3.

-- Attachment is not available -- -- Attachment is not available --

https://www.mitsubishi-les.com/assets/documents/12445/1/ph-ecodan-de.pdf

https://www.mitsubishi-les.com/de-de/suche.html?document_lang_code=de&content_type=documents&product_series=ps_Ecodan&queryTerm=Planungshandb%C3%BCcher

 

4. https://www.haustechnikdialog.de/Forum/p/2920861

5. https://www.haustechnikdialog.de/Forum/p/3082635

 

interesting forum comments @fazel

Do you think the forum member comments are factual? Because I spoke to a tech advisor back in April who stated the AA system does make reference to the weather compensation curve. Could it be we are just fed whatever sounds plausible. 

Whats your system doing? How are things operating for you?

ps I couldn’t translate any other docs but I’ll try again when I’m on my laptop.

 


   
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