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Air Source Heat Pump Policies – MCS Planning Standards

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(@persephone)
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Posted by: @jamespa

How much can you actually hear the heat pump and in what circumstances? 

I can hear it in my bedroom and in the living room. The noise is more annoying at night and early morning. The noise is annoying in my backgarden in summer days. 


   
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(@jamespa)
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Posted by: @persephone

Posted by: @jamespa

a planning condition which was made based on expert evidence

I want to understand the condition because I think it is biased and is written in such a way to help my neighbour provide a document for it. The wording of the condition is done by the Head of Planning Services, however, the LRB members who reversed the refusal of the application had absolutely no expertise in planning. Again, I only want to understand what the condition is and if the assessment proves that it has been met.    

I'm sorry but I don't think I can explain the condition, which is very clear, more than I have.  Maybe others can. 

 

Posted by: @persephone

Again, that's why I say all the MCS policies are ridiculously useless.  

Whilst some of us may agree with you for other reasons, your position has nothing to do with MCS. The noise condition, which the report says is met, was set by your local planning review board.  That's absolutely nothing to do with MCS.

Posted by: @persephone

I don't think the condition refers to NR because if this is the case, then condition 1 and condition 2 of the LRB Decision Notice would be the same!  Condition 1- Within six weeks ... an at-source noise survey ... Condition 2- The total noise from all plant, ... complies with NR25 ... 

here is the condition

Posted by: @jamespa

Within six weeks of the decision being issued, an ‘at-source’ noise survey at the Air Source Heat Pump shall be undertaken and submitted to Fife Council for approval to demonstrate compliance with the predicted sound pressure levels at this source and the predicted sound pressure levels 1m from the first-floor façade of the adjacent residential property to the west. Alternatively, if these levels are exceeded, suitable mitigation shall be agreed in writing and thereafter installed with noise levels re-tested to demonstrate compliance with this or suitable alternative noise levels agreed by Public Protection.  Thereafter, the development shall be carried out in accordance with these approved details unless otherwise agreed in writing with Planning Authority in consultation with Protective Services.

"and the predicted sound pressure levels 1m from the first-floor façade of the adjacent residential property to the west." clearly refers to NR25/30 (in practice NR25)

"compliance with the predicted sound pressure levels at this source" refers to another number which I cant be bothered to look for in the documentation because it is wholly irrelevant, given that the key part of the condition is "sound pressure levels 1m from the first-floor façade of the adjacent residential property to the west."

Im sorry but, so far as I can see, you are clutching at straws here.  I reiterate:

How much can you actually hear the heat pump and in what circumstances?  Is it causing 'a substantial and unreasonable detriment to your enjoyment of the property or injurious to your health'.  If so it might be better just to  pursue a nuisance claim, as I fear that reversing a decision on a planning condition which was made based on expert evidence is going to prove tricky, even if you could prove that the condition is not in fact met on some occasions (which is the absolute best you can hope for, I think unless WSP are fraudsters, a circumstance for which there is no evidence of which I am aware).

 

 

This post was modified 3 months ago 2 times by JamesPa

   
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(@persephone)
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Posted by: @jamespa

I was quoted £350 for an overnight measurement to determine local background. 

I was quoted £800 for a 24-hour measurement. I know that WSP charged my neighbour £2500 for just the couple of hours of the measurement!

 


   
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(@jamespa)
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quote data-userid="5190" data-postid="28091"]

Posted by: @jamespa

How much can you actually hear the heat pump and in what circumstances? 

 

Posted by: @persephone

I can hear it in my bedroom and in the living room. The noise is more annoying at night and early morning. The noise is annoying in my backgarden in summer days. 

 

Sorry again to bring bad news but...

The condition does not protect your garden.  I don't doubt that on summer days you can also hear lawnmowers, power tools, from time to time building work, your neighbours, and other 'annoying' noises in your garden, but you cant stop them either and nor would it be reasonable to do so. Your neighbours can doubtless hear some of these sounds from you but they also aren't protected; its a consequence of living in close proximity. Presumably in summer your neighbours aren't heating their home so its only DHW for a couple of hours per day, why not speak nicely to them and ask them to alter the time that they heat their DHW to a time when you are not in the garden.?

'Annoying' does not pass the test for nuisance.  You have not produced evidence that the planning condition has been breached and your neighbours have produced evidence that it has been met.  The condition should guarantee that you can barely hear it inside your house assuming that your windows are no more than ajar for ventilation, are you saying you can hear it even if the windows are shut or just slightly ajar?

 

This post was modified 3 months ago by JamesPa

   
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(@persephone)
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Posted by: @jamespa

I'm sorry but I don't think I can explain the condition, which is very clear, more than I have.  Maybe others can. 

I am sorry, I wrote my comment before I read your last comment which clarified the meaning of the condition. Thank you.   


   
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(@persephone)
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@jamespa Yes, I can hear it with windows ajar.


   
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(@jamespa)
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Posted by: @persephone

Posted by: @jamespa

I'm sorry but I don't think I can explain the condition, which is very clear, more than I have.  Maybe others can. 

I am sorry, I wrote my comment before I read your last comment which clarified the meaning of the condition. Thank you.   

No worry. 

PS I do agree that condition 1 and condition 2 appear to be somewhat repetitive, however you interpret them.  As I said above you might just interpret condition 1 as referring to NR23 (given what the applicant put in the appeal statement) but really it isnt going to change the conclusion as the only thing that your LPA will actually care about is the figure at your property and WSP estimated NR19

 


   
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Abernyte
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Posted by: @jamespa

However, given the expert evidence to the contrary, this would be a waste of your money unless you have a solid reason to believe that the condition is not met and think you stand a reasonable chance of collecting the evidence to prove it.

As I stated earlier the only recourse for a third party in Scotland is to judicial review at the Court of Session to determine if the local authority have acted unlawfully. They will not assess the merits of the decision. 


   
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(@jamespa)
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Posted by: @abernyte

 

Posted by: @jamespa

However, given the expert evidence to the contrary, this would be a waste of your money unless you have a solid reason to believe that the condition is not met and think you stand a reasonable chance of collecting the evidence to prove it.

As I stated earlier the only recourse for a third party in Scotland is to judicial review at the Court of Session to determine if the local authority have acted unlawfully. They will not assess the merits of the decision. 

In England I think you have just 6 weeks to initiate a planning JR.  Is it the same on Scotland?

 


   
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Abernyte
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3 months


   
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(@jamespa)
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Posted by: @persephone

@jamespa Yes, I can hear it with windows ajar.

You must have very good hearing.  Can you hear your fridge upstairs?

Whats the nature of the sound and when does it occur.

I sometimes hear a fan/flue noise from my neighbours during the night.  I don't know what it is, they don't have a heat pump.  It's annoying but wouldn't class as nuisance so I just have to accept it.

 


   
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Toodles
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@jamespa And much though I would like to ‘quieten’ the emergency services sirens, the motorway, 3 x A roads, a 24/7 food storage facility, Southern Region railway lines and aircraft (we are on the Heathrow flightpath with a reference beacon less than 2 miles away) plus noisy local traffic and animals - we can’t! Regrets, Toodles.

Toodles, 76 years young and hoping to see 100 and make some ROI on my renewable energy investment!


   
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