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alternative to Homely - HavenWise. Anyone used it?

Tim441 · 2024-10-08T14:39:51Z

Interesting article in the Telegraph.. includes: HavenWise for heat pumps. Has anyone heard of it.. or used it? Extract: The established brands include Homely and PassivUK, whose optimisers have been independently shown to save 20 to 30pc. The latest entrant is a start-up called HavenWise, the brainchild of Alex Nelson, a former captain in the Royal Logistic Corps with a masters degree in robotics, and backed by Carbon13, a climate technology investor. Last spring, HavenWise demonstrated its system on my heat pump during two days of near-identical weather and the result was astonishing. The combination of its optimiser and the Agile tariff worked out 60pc cheaper than a standard tariff with no optimisation. The company says it achieved similar results in longer tests with other heat pumps. On that basis, had I been using Agile and HavenWise over the previous year, my heat pump bill would have fallen from £1,194 to £478, a saving of £717. My total electricity bill (I don’t have gas) would not have come out at £2,096 – roughly in line with the average Ofgem tariff and Energy Price Guarantee over the previous year – but a third lower at £1,379. For this year, if the weather and Agile tariffs stay the same – which they won’t – and with the Ofgem cap at £1,717, I’m guessing it would be around £1,200. But these savings are at the upper end of what HavenWise would expect, cautioned Mr Nelson, because I had not previously been running the heat pump in its most efficient weather-compensation mode. As the company tests its algorithm on many more heat pumps this winter, it expects the savings to be lower. “It’s difficult to forecast precisely”, said Mr Nelson, “but we think the average savings will settle at around 50pc.” If optimisers can deliver savings of more than 30pc, it could give heat pumps a decisive advantage over gas boilers, according to Nesta, a clean energy think tank. Its modelling shows that with the current installation subsidy of £7,500, heat pumps would then undercut boilers on the total cost of ownership – including purchase, installation, maintenance and 15 years of energy bills. “If the optimiser can save 30pc, heat pumps would cost less than a boiler every month, all in”, said Andrew Sissons, deputy director of Nesta. “That makes it easier for banks to offer financing to eliminate the upfront cost for the consumer, so this could be a pivotal moment.” Those kinds of deals are already beginning to emerge. Swedish company Aira is installing heat pumps in the UK at no upfront cost. The Heat Geek installer network has launched a similar offer which includes an efficiency guarantee. Homely and PassivUK’s optimisers work through small electronic devices costing around £200 that need to be wired into the heat pump by an approved installer. HavenWise operates through the cloud and needs no extra equipment – provided the heat pump is Wi-Fi enabled – and will charge an annual subscription of £50.

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Broadsman

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03/02/2025 3:44 pm

@editor Thank you, and fingers crossed.

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Alfapat

(@alfapat)

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03/02/2025 5:32 pm

Posted by: @alfapat

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It looks like I can fit Modbus to my Gen 5 Heat pump , I have been sent an instruction to change the installion on my Samsung Controller.

My question remains Homely or Havenwise

A query and a rEquest sent to Havenwise yesterday has not been answered yet , so I am going to ask if anyone on this forum who has Havenwise do I need Modbus board as well as Samsung WIFI . I now know that I can or someone can , fit a MODBUS MIM-B19N board to a GEN 5 HP

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Arundalep

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03/02/2025 5:56 pm

@alfapat you only need the Modbus interface for Homely. Havenwise works through the Samsung API so needs the WiFi interface (which Homely doesn’t).

Homely - Modbus Interface

Havenwise - WiFi Interface

I would add though, I have plenty of experience and understanding re Homely & Modbus but no experience with Havenwise or the Samsung API so it might be better for someone from Havenwise to reply before you decide.

1970’s 3 bed detached house in West Sussex. Mains gas disconnected September 2023.
Samsung HTQ 8kW heat pump using mostly existing radiators. House is warm 24/7 (normally between 20.3-20.6 C but currently with a newborn its 21-21.2 C).
Sunamp for hot water storage.
Solaredge 6kWp PV and 10kWh battery
Vehicle 2 Grid charger (used with a Leaf)
Wallbox EV charger (installed for Octopus Intelligent).
Home Assistant used for HEMS with lots of custom ESP devices to allow integration.

Insulation upgrades:
EPS cavity wall insulation.
Improved loft insulation (renewed and 300mm where possible).

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Arundalep

(@arundalep)

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03/02/2025 6:02 pm

@broadsman sorry I missed the is previous reply.

Havenwise wasn’t available when I fitted my heat pump and Homely had just launched. I wanted to try it. It is very good at what it does and our use case is very complex. In short there is no product available that does what I want so I did it myself.

We have a Samsung HTQ, Sunamp for hot water, solar, battery, EV charger and V2G (vehicle to grid), using Octopus Intelligent Go. It is all fully integrated with Home Assistant and has taken a lot of work but now works great.

Insulation upgrades:
EPS cavity wall insulation.
Improved loft insulation (renewed and 300mm where possible).

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Alfapat

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03/02/2025 10:03 pm

@arundalep Many Thanks for your thoughts there, I will wait in that case . I have to say I am not going down the solar route or EV but still want a good cost worthy solution. Ill hang fire till then.

Query here required , you still need something to energise The Heat Pump so that WiFi connects to it surely .

This post was modified 7 months ago by Alfapat

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Arundalep

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05/02/2025 10:53 am

Posted by: @alfapat

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Query here required , you still need something to energise The Heat Pump so that WiFi connects to it surely .

I’m not sure what you are asking, can you clarify the question?

The WiFi interface provides an internet gateway to the heat pump. You can then control your heat pump using the SmartThings app or grant access to third parties (like Havenwise) for them to control it remotely. The WiFi interface is always connected and enabled.

Insulation upgrades:
EPS cavity wall insulation.
Improved loft insulation (renewed and 300mm where possible).

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Alfapat

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05/02/2025 12:08 pm

@arundalep I thought the Samsung wifi needed some sort of hardware in the HP , so thinking that would be the Modbus card , but clearly not. How does it communicate with the Heat Pump, perhaps your not the person to ask there as you have Homely ?

Anyway I have enquired into getting this from Samsung, but its slow going!

This post was modified 7 months ago by Alfapat

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Majordennisbloodnok

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05/02/2025 12:37 pm

Posted by: @alfapat

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@arundalep I thought the Samsung wifi needed some sort of hardware in the HP , so thinking that would be the Modbus card , but clearly not. How does it communicate with the Heat Pump, perhaps your not the person to ask there as you have Homely ?

Anyway I have enquired into getting this from Samsung, but its slow going!

Any heat pump needs some hardware to communicate. If you want it to communicate via wifi, it needs a wifi adapter. If you want it to communicate via modbus, it needs a modbus card.

Since controlling a heat pump using an app is a selling point, it's very common (but not universal) for either the wifi hardware to be built into the heat pump or for installers to include the wifi module within the quote and installation. Modbus is far less commonly used so it's much less common for a modbus interface to be provided as standard.

Homely controls the heat pump directly and so needs a modbus interface to attach its wires to. Havenwise controls the heat pump via the manufacturer's cloud-based interface so as long as the heat pump is talking with the manufacturer's systems then it'll receive Havenwise's instructions via exactly the same route as if you were making a change using an app on your phone.

105 m2 bungalow in South East England
Mitsubishi Ecodan 8.5 kW air source heat pump
18 x 360W solar panels
1 x 6 kW GroWatt battery and SPH5000 inverter
1 x Myenergi Zappi
1 x VW ID3
Raised beds for home-grown veg and chickens for eggs

"Semper in excretia; sumus solum profundum variat"

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Arundalep

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05/02/2025 1:22 pm

@alfapat the Samsung WiFi interface communicates with the heat pump on their proprietary NASA network (F1 & F2) and is powered by V1 & V2. You do not need anything else (everything comes in the kit).

Insulation upgrades:
EPS cavity wall insulation.
Improved loft insulation (renewed and 300mm where possible).

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