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Ideal renewables components - opinions please

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Majordennisbloodnok
(@majordennisbloodnok)
Noble Member Moderator
7361 kWhs
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 754
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This is a bit of a canvassing opinion post, but not quite a survey.

I am lucky enough to have what seems to often be called the Holy Trinity - heat pump, solar panels and home battery - and the kit all works pretty well together. However, now I've been living with the setup for several years there are a few areas where, with the benefit of hindsight, I might have done things slightly differently; I wouldn't say we made any mistakes but some of our choices were suboptimal. I know it's already very well covered elsewhere that what one has installed is far less important than how it is installed, so in this case I'm going to assume that any kit discussed here is part of a solution designed to the highest standards. However, I wanted to explore what shortcomings various pieces of kit have and get others' experiences to find out what might be a gold standard for each budget.

My assumption here is that an ideal setup will include solar panels, a hybrid inverter (so one can export if surplus is generated), battery storage, an air source heat pump, an electric vehicle, a car charger and some means of managing all the different bits of kit.

Heat pump

The heat pump I've got is a Mitsubishi Ecodan which came out very well in the recent RHH owner survey. It's quiet and efficient, has so far been very reliable and has good support behind it. It loses marks for the refrigerant it uses (R32), for needing a separate (at extra cost) modbus module to allow for communicating with it directly and for having a web app (Melcloud) that is far from slick. Nonetheless, it still comes across as a premium bit of kit. The question is whether it is a gold standard. I can't think what else I'd prefer to have installed in an ideal world but that lack of local control is not ideal so I suspect it's more of a silver standard.

Solar panels

The solar panels we have installed are JA and are each 360W. Whilst the standard has moved on now to 420W panels, I can't fault them and my guess is that panels are pretty much of a muchness. I have yet to hear anyone say anything that might distinguish between "budget" and "premium" kit other than price.

Inverter

Our inverter is from Growatt. We suffered quite significantly from Growatt's web app and portal since it is far from user-friendly and rather full of bugs. Big points lost there. However, once I started controlling it locally via modbus I started to find that the general opinion I've picked up about Growatt's kit actually being pretty good is fair. It's a decent inverter that does what it says on the tin and deserves praise for that. Operationally, the only real fault I can pick up is that power to/from the battery is limited to 3kW which can hamstring our ability to pile all we generate into the battery at peak times. This would be more of an issue were we to have a larger battery which is certainly a consideration for the future. If I were to go through the exercise again, I suspect I'd choose a different inverter capable of higher throughput so what I've got is probably not a gold standard for me.

Battery

As with the inverter, our battery is Growatt. In this case, it's a 6kWh capacity which, in hindsight, was underspecified - that's down to me, not any installers. Ideally I would prefer something with markedly more capacity and, given how technology has moved on quickly with prices coming down, I certainly like the look of the Fogstar weatherproof enclosure with 20kWh-worth of batteries inside. For me, any gold standard would have to involve the battery being able to be sited outside but other than that it feels to me as if batteries are pretty much a commodity. I could be wrong.

Electric Vehicle

This item probably deserves an article on its own and given everyone's differing needs is obviously not going to have one right answer. We ended up going for a VW ID3 which fits all our car needs admirably. From the perspective of my question on this thread, however, the key points are more targeted. It is reasonably economical and the charging losses are well within acceptable boundaries (less than 10%). It has a reasonable web app and the programming both of the app and the car's software are pretty reasonable (admittedly after a bit of a shaky start a couple of years before we bought into the EV thing). The quality overall feels decent and it kinda does what it says on the tin. It loses marks for me for being relatively expensive for what you get, but that's the VW group all over. Overall, though, I don't see where we could reasonably improve on the choice we made so gold standard it is.

Car charger

Here I'm tempted to say I've found my gold standard in the shape of a MyEnergi Zappi. As with any charger, it does the basics well. Where it scores brownie points, however, are that the app is easy to use, the whole thing is pretty intuitive and it is one of very few chargers that can attach to our home network with a physical network cable to allow for a very reliable and secure connection to t'interweb. MyEnergi are pretty anal about their preinstallation checklist which can be a bit frustrating but ultimately is a big benefit for the consumer's peace of mind; high standards are high standards.

Integration and automation

Another big area, but an important one. With all this kit, how to manage it? A neighbour of ours has recently had a heat pump, solar panels and battery installed to complement their PHEV and is perfectly happy to juggle the various apps to manage the ensemble until they understand what's attention-intensive and what they can happily leave alone. I, on the other hand, have plumped for Home Assistant in a pretty comprehensive way. To be frank, I don't believe there is a gold standard yet for home automation and integrated control since the only options available trade off capabilities against technical learning curve - it's either good but you have to tinker or its capabilities are limited. There is as yet no plug and play offering that can deal with all the kit at the same time. Nonetheless, I do believe the choice of how to control everything - particularly in an integrated way - does influence the gold standard of each of the separate bits of kit. Any heat pump, inverter etc. that can only be controlled through the manufacturer's cloud systems (whether through their app or through some integration that uses the underlying web-based wizardry) is limiting the consumer's choice and so has to lose points. Any kit that provides the option for being controlled locally scores extra. Any kit whose manufacturer actually provides an official integration into any of the home automation options also scores well in my book.

So what say you? What do you think are the ideal choices, assuming they're part of a properly competent overall design? What, knowing what you know now, would you want to change about your choices of kit; what limitations do you have that you didn't even know enough to consider when you got your install done? What unexpected bonuses did you discover; features you didn't realise you bought but now find really useful?

105 m2 bungalow in South East England
Mitsubishi Ecodan 8.5 kW air source heat pump
18 x 360W solar panels
1 x 6 kW GroWatt battery and SPH5000 inverter
1 x Myenergi Zappi
1 x VW ID3
Raised beds for home-grown veg and chickens for eggs

"Semper in excretia; suus solum profundum variat"


   
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(@jamespa)
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11444 kWhs
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Joined: 2 years ago
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I dont have a battery, but I have the rest.  Here is my setup and brief comments

 

Heat pump

Vaillant 7kW, directly connected to radiators.  No external controls.

The controls are (unexpectedly) brilliant, most particularly the fact that even if you are operating of pure weather compensation you can change the 'room temperature' and what happens behind the scene is that the weather compensation curve shifts.  Similarly a timed setback/set forward shifts the WC curve.  Some other heat pumps can effectively do set back/set forward only by invoking an on/off thermostat which is obviously less efficient.  All heat pump controls should operate this way!  

However - although absolutely whisper quiet most of the time it gets a bit noisy during defrost.  Fortunately I've worked out how to tame it 

Vaillant app is a bit of a toy really but you can download various data which is useful initially, Im sure the novelty will wear off until there is a problem - hopefully many years down the line.  The remote control is occasionally useful

I have a feeling the 8kW Ecodan R290kW might be a hands down winner at present, it has 2 compressors (6kW and 2kW) so a larger modulation range than most.  Will others follow suit?  Almost a universal fit pump!

I'm very happy overall with the Vaillant now Ive worked out how to tame the defrost noise.  Looks like SCOP will work out at around 4, between Nov and Feb it was 12% cheaper than gas to run (radiators at 42C FT).  

I have one Mitsubishi fan coil, I wish Id installed a couple more, a lovely looking and very functional piece of kit.

Regretsnot installing a couple more fancoils in the downstairs rooms

 

Solar panels

4kWp in 250W panels installed in 2011.  I could easily get 5.5-6kWp, even if my DNO wont allow more than 3.84kW in export.  My existing inverter can cope with more panels than output but the cost of 'upgrading' is too high.

Regrets: not 'maxing out' the amount of panels from day 1.  Should have put in 5.5kW with the same inverter (which can cope albeit the output will 'clip' once it gets above 3.86kW)

 

Inverter

SMA Sunny Boy 4000 - not much to say about this its now out of date technology, but still working 14 years down the line

Regrets: none, because today's technology didn't exist in 2011

 

Battery

None - cant make the business case pay relative to just choosing a good leccy tarrif - although its getting close

Regrets: that I cant make the business case pay

 

Electric Vehicle

Kin e-niro (2021 version) bought second hand, plus roofbars, replacing a Ford Mondeo.  This choice worried me; Mondeos are vast and, despite their reputation as a salesman's car, good and ultra reliable.  We used the Mondeo as a van.  But we didn't want another big car.  So we did a bit of analysis of our actual (as opposed to perceived) use and concluded that roof bars would take most of what we need a big car for and once or twice a year we could get stuff delivered or hire a van. 

We looked at all the obvious cars and initially ignored the Niro for reasons I dont now know, then one day I read a review, we went to see one, and it precisely met our needs.  Two generations on the EV3 is getting excellent reviews

Regrets: none

 

Car charger

Granny charger (13A socket) only.  Charged overnight, currently at 7p/kWh

Regrets: none  I may get a 'proper' charger one day, probably triggered by an electricity tariff change.  Until then, why spend the money?

 

Integration and automation

The heat pump control does everything we want so we don't layer anything on top.  However we do monitor the heat pump with Home Assistant running on a pi3.

Home assistant is used to turn the 13A socket for the granny charger on and off for the night-time tariff (previous to the night time tariff it turned it on and off according to solar production).  There is also a manual physical switch to override.  Easier than getting the car to do the same (which it can), and more fun than having the Shelly switch do the job itself (which it can).

Regrets: The Vaillant/HA interface only exposes a limited number of parameters which don't include, for example, compressor modulation.  It would be nice to have these but it would mean swapping to openenergy monitor with its ebusd card.  Maybe one day, by then will probably have more exciting things to do.

 

This post was modified 2 days ago 3 times by JamesPa
This post was modified 1 day ago 2 times by JamesPa

4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.


   
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Toodles
(@toodles)
Famed Member Contributor
11488 kWhs
Veteran
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1862
 

@majordennisbloodnok 

Same ‘Trinity’ here, and like you Major, ours has been running for two years and more - yet I still enthusiastically peruse the Tesla app umpteen times a day keeping an eye on the solar energy production; this particular ‘trait’ has not really diminished at all (yes, I know I’m a ‘nerd & sado’!🙇🏻)

I think we made good choices and decisions over products; unfortunately, our roof orientation and the amount of shadowing means our solar production is well below par. Though we have 5 panels on the main roof, 4 on a flat roof, 2 on the workshop roof and 10 ground mounted, the 21 panels amount to about 1 MWh of energy in the month of June, the best we see.

Battery

We have 27KWh of Tesla Powerwall capacity and each of the PV panels enjoys its’ own Enphase IQ7A microinvertor - this installation was a serious financial blow but I don’t like doing things by halves!

Heat pump

We had the Daikin 8 KW monobloc installed and as we wished to have smart control later (the Homely was not yet available for our pump) had to make do with a ‘clunk on / clunk off’ controller initially, (not ideal) and we were pleased when the Homely became available.

 

Hot Water.

Not alone in this I feel sure but, we just did not have a space for a socking great DHW tank as would have been required by MCS guidelines. We took the option of retaining space in our airing cupboard and fitting a Sunamp Thermino heat battery powered by solar or grid energy controlled via our Myenergi Eddi (which also controls our electrical immersion unit in the dual fuel towel rail.)

 

Electric Vehicle?

Err no, public transport or Shank’s Pony for us, our ‘bus company does use variously derived ‘greener’ fuels to power the fleet and are about to start running some EB’s on their flagship route as a trial.

 

Integration and automation

It is a little bit ‘bitty’ with the heating ignorant of the solar panels and the DHW arrangements but, all in all, with Homely looking after the heating, Eddi seeing to the hot water and Enphase plus Tesla taking care of the photons, all seem to work reasonably well.  I can address the house needs from grid or home brewed energy quite easily with the Tesla app. I am considering whether to provide Octopus Energy with access to my Powerwall and solar output with Octopus Intelligent Flux for the non-heating season.

Looking Back

Have I any regrets over our choice? Not really, it has become quite a hobby for me at least! A bonus was of course, getting to hear of the RHH forum! Having also made an investment in a solar farm* and a few bricks of a wind turbine, I hope to see some return for that - but there are risks in such investments as is evident just at present.

*I can’t really justify taking up any more of the back garden with silicon!

 

Going ‘Green’ is something I feel passionate about, (and I think my better half also leans quite heavily in the same direction but leaves me to do the ‘nerdy stuff’ etc!) We have had a few visitors under the ‘Visit a Heat Pump’ scheme and enjoy spreading the word around.

I do have one small regret I suppose… that is that we are still enjoying a ‘Bonkers’ pricing structure for our electrical energy and paying a levy towards keeping gas burning! Regards, Toodles.

This post was modified 1 day ago by Toodles

Toodles, he heats his home with cold draughts and cooks his food with magnets.


   
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