There's a lot of discussion about them on the Facebook Octopus Agile group. Quite a few people are jumping ship to Tomato from Agile, due to the recent high cost of dynamically priced whole-sale linked tariffs such as Agile.

OFGEM are currently investigating Tomato energy for breaches of the conditions of their electricity supply licence, and their prices seem almost suicidally low - lower even than the wholesale market price. Hmmm....

It wasn't that long ago a whole boat load of smaller energy companies went pop as they hadn't the financial capital and liquidity to hedge their energy procurement & secure forward supply in advance. Market prices rose and they ran out of cash. If utility suppliers get squeezed and stress tested again, I think the likes of Tomato will be amongst the first casualties.

Personally, I wouldn't risk them. But plenty are weighing up the risk vs reward and taking the plunge with them.

Posted by: @allyfish

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Personally, I wouldn't risk them

Thanks.  But what is the downside?  I have been with 2 energy companies that failed and they just get mopped up by someone else - that's how I ended up with Octo.  Even your credit balance is protected.

Posted by: @allyfish

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OFGEM are currently investigating Tomato energy for breaches of the conditions of their electricity supply licence

Are you referring to the investigation which Ofgem launched in December 2023?

Or do you have news of a more recent situation?

I'm aware that Elexon has started going public on money which it claims hasn't been paid for electricity bought via their wholesale market.
However, there has been no sanction taken against Tomato by Ofgem.

This is a particularly tricky point of the regulatory mechanism to understand.
The dispute is on estimates of non-metered units.

But Elexon's Public Notice is based on Tomato Energy accounting for a higher proportion of disputed usage than would be expected from its small market share.
That's an opinion, rather than clear evidence.

Perhaps the directors of Tomato have been using an innovative algorithm to support their estimates, and the cartel of other electricity suppliers don't like it.

If the electricity wholesale market wasn't so darn complex in the first place, then such protracted disputes would be unnecessary.

Ofgem have allowed the electricity wholesale settlement process to persist long beyond it being appropriate for the current technology.
To do so, they spend long hours being lobbied by the Big Boys in the energy sector, whilst oblivious of what solutions might be available from those of us in the consumer sector.

If I devise a system which would alleviate the need for bill increases to pay for grid infrastructure upgrades, then I can't be 'heard' by Ofgem.
Their regulatory strategy is based on £-sterling, rather than Joules and MWhrs.
Any solution which doesn't require profit falls outside their remit.

DESNZ is currently holding a public consultation into the role of Ofgem, which is a non-ministerial Government Dept.

The Consulation closes on 28th Feb.

Since we are ordinary members of the public, we shouldn't feel constrained to respond within the usual formalities of official documents.
Read the accompanying Call for Evidence Document, and tell DESNZ what you think!

You don't need to answer every question.

And @downfield might like to note that there's are sections on page-27 about Supplier Failure and the role of the Consumer Ombudsman

Those questions are aimed directly at us lot!

@transparent Thank you for your detailed reply.  I will take a look at the consultation documents.

My research today uncovered a lot of negative reviews on Trustpilot, but I am well aware that those who are unhappy make the most noise.  A lot of criticsm relates to the meter-reading and billing systems, which seem undeveloped, but there are plenty of Octo customers whose SMETS-2 meters don't work for some reason.

If TE doesn't bill me for a few months, it's their problem not mine - unless of course they get the numbers wrong.  There's no penalty for leaving the tariff although I'm sure they will try to make it difficult.

But I will probably save c£200 per month compared to current Agile prices so that is a consideration.

Posted by: @downfield

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A lot of criticsm relates to the meter-reading and billing systems

I have investigated billing errors for customers with Smart Meters for several years;
I have submitted evidence to DESNZ and the Commons Select Committee on Energy.

This is not a new phenomenon, and has been affecting numerous Energy Suppliers.

We have a whole topic covering Incorrect Billing.

Posted by: @downfield

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but there are plenty of Octo customers whose SMETS-2 meters don't work for some reason

Yup, I had this on Agile dynamically priced tariff, I think my smart meter missed one or two half hourly billing periods, and rather than look at the historical trend for those same periods on other days, or take the average consumption either side, Octopus were going to bill me the entire month at their standard variable price cap tariff. As it their right within the very small print of the Agile tariff T&Cs. That was going to disadvantage me by £100 for that month, which was a winter month when I was importing quite heavily as an all-electric ASHP heated house.

First I knew of it was when my import bill failed to materialise for that month, and was still missing a month later. Then it landed like a bombshell. "WHOOOOAAAA, hold on, said I" and got onto Octopus customer service. They were rather tardy to reply to my written protestation, but when they finally did, we did a deal whereby I was credited a 'discretionary £100'.

The killer of course is that I have absolutely no control over the smart meter reliability and accuracy, it is installed by, and owned by, others. Yet if it has a wobbler, it's me who is liable to be disadvantaged. That sucks.

I've shifted to Cosy Octopus this winter, set prices for set periods, which given the volatility and high recent prices of Agile was a good call in hindsight, but the main part of the motivation for moving was not wanting to be in the same situation again, where I as the consumer am potentially disadvantaged and have to do the donkey work, plead my case, and sort out smart meter billing issues on behalf of Octopus and other 3rd parties.

Posted by: @allyfish

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I think my smart meter missed one or two half hourly billing periods

I've been on Agile for about 14 months and so far no issues with metering or billing.

Before I decide to switch to TE I shall ask them, in the light of the negative reviews, what %age of their customers do have issues with metering and given my experience on Agile whether they would anticipate problems.

I don't mind reading the meter monthly for such large savings, but would prefer not to of course.

Also, the TE tariff is like Cosy in that it is for the same fixed periods /prices each day, so you don't need 30 minute accuracy.  Not sure if that makes it any easier.

Posted by: @allyfish

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I think my smart meter missed one or two half hourly billing periods,

The detail on that issue matters.

1: The consumption readings in a Smart Meter are cumulative.
Any 'missing' period is still reflected in the following one.

That makes estimates straightforward, even within a wildly fluctuating tariff.

2: I don't see how one or two HH readings could be missed and yet the following ones be retrieved.
It is usually the case that Energy Suppliers retrieve readings once per day, some time after midnight.

But even if Octopus Agile were to require the readings to be retrieved 48 times per day, there is no such concept of being unable to retrieve a particular reading.

Every Electricity Smart Meter Equipment (ESME) retains the consumption data for the past 13-months.
That is laid down in the Smart Meter Specifications of Nov 2013, and approved by Parliament.

3: The correct course of action should've been to use the Octopus Complaints Procedure.

That has two (timed) stages, after which you can take the case to the Office of the Energy Ombudsman.
The entire process is straightforward and non-confrontational.

The most important advice I will give here is to recommend that any complaints are handled by email (not phone).
That gives the consumer date/time-stamped evidence of the nature of the issue, which will required by the Ombudsman.

Posted by: @allyfish

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I have absolutely no control over the smart meter reliability and accuracy

I very much doubt if your ESME or Communications Hub is inaccurate.

Here's a paragraph of a letter I have from a Minister of State at DESNZ:

The two possible qualms you might have are:

a: the reliability of the Wide Area Network which uses radio waves to transfer commands and data to/fro your Communications Hub.

b: the efficacy (correct operation of) the Supplier's billing system software.
In the case of Octopus, that software is called Kraken.

If you or anyone else who reads this should find themself in a similar situation...

Ask for help here on the Forum!

@downfield 

I jumped ship from 🐙 Tracker to a Fuse Energy fix - I asked for reviews from users and all were pretty satisfied. It's got big backers, has just been awarded a gas shipping & trading license so they're probably financially sound.

The move was very smooth and efficient. They only allow monthly payment, no building up of credit balances. So I am dumping a monthly amount into an interest-bearing account instead. 

Tomato sounds a billing mess from what I've seen. Fuse is app-based and has not bad online Kwh use monitoring - hourly rather than 🐙 half hour. I back it with the Bright App. 

ATM Ecotricity has a very good cheap 1year fix - they're ok too, and usually more expensive. But no app. My son is with them and reckons they're ok. 

I think a few companies are jumping in to snatch what they can from 🐙. 

Posted by: @lucia

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Tomato sounds a billing mess from what I've seen

I've jumped for Tomato with my eyes open.  I got some feedback from some users over on the GivEnergy forum who have been with TE for some months without issues.  I spoke to TE and they said if I had been on Agile there should be no meter comms issues.

I can keep track of my HH usage and it's a simple matter to calculate the bills as a check.  If they don't send me a bill it's their problem.

Posted by: @lucia

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Fuse is app-based and has not bad online Kwh use monitoring - hourly rather than 🐙 half hour.

How does their software collect that data?

From Smart meters?

... being polled each hour to obtain 'live' data?

It's an odd decision to build their own billing software on a time-frame which is different to the half-hour slots used by both Smart Meters and the UK energy wholesale markets.

What will they do when GB allows Nodal pricing for the retail market, based on the location of the consumer relative to supply & demand on their section of the electricity network?

OVO encountered a similar issue due to the programmers not being briefed about future grid structure.

Their sister company, Kaluza, designed and built Orion as their own in-house billing system,
and when instructed by the Directors to facilitate ToU Tariffs, the underlying code couldn't handle it 😥