Posted by: @minos

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Anyone have an idea how long it might take for Octopus to get around to installing a smart meter for me? They seem unable or unwilling to give me any idea.

2 weeks for my case this year, others say 4 weeks

@fazel Thanks fazel

@minos the time taken to get a Smart Meter installed/commissioned/exchanged will depend on your locality.

1: Each Energy Supplier has their own in-house installation engineers, and options to use 3rd-party contractors.
Those installers wouldn't expect to be notified of a site until about 3-5 days before it is to occur.

2: Someone at your Energy Supplier will check your site against the National Smart Meter coverage database/map.
This is a protected resource which is continually updated to take account of:

• transmitters which are off-line or on reduced power
• other sites Smart Meters in the area which may have required SKU2 or SKU3 Communication Hubs with additional aerials
• the presence of any Mesh network in the area

3: The Data Communications Company (DCC) will assign the requisite Comms Hub for your site.
That remains their property.

4: The installation team manager for your area will allocate an ESME (electricity meter) and GSME (gas meter) from the stock that they hold.
Those will be assigned to one of his engineers who has had the relevant training on that model.

5: Each engineer can reasonably expect to undertake four installations each day.
If another site has failed on the previous day, the team manager may need to change your time-slot at the last minute.

For these reasons there are a number of variables which interact when trying to assess the time you will need to wait.
However, the Supplier will be working to targets which are set and monitored by Ofgem. So they get penalised if their administration lets you down.

In practice a brand new installation site gets higher priority than one which needs an exchange.
Swapping one ESME/Comms Hub for another won't help much in meeting Ofgem's targets.

Another thought @minos

Are you still paying a daily standing charge for that gas connection?

There are costs involved with 'decommissioning' a gas supply to a house.
It's not just a question of removing a meter.

In most cases the Gas Network Operator will want to cap the pipe 'in the road', rather than leave a pressurized supply into the property.
I would expect this to be be an even more important requirement for sites on a medium-pressure main.

Let's remember, without a meter being present, there is no longer a pressure-regulator on your end of the pipe.
Any future structural issues with the house poses an identifiable risk of releasing gas at a far higher pressure than the 18.5mBar to 23mBar range normally found within a UK house.

A Medium Pressure main can be as high as 2 Bar.

@transparent Thank you so much for this info. I had no idea. I frankly don't know if I'm still being charged for the DSC. I had assumed not but now I wonder because the meter is still sitting there. I informed EON by phone on the 18th of Aug that I was changing the gas combi boiler for an ASHP and would no longer require gas. I received an email that same day from EON instructing me to contact Northern Gas Networks. I quote from their email:

"Sequel to our phone conversation earlier today for your gas meter to be removed, please contact your gas network operator( Northern Gas Networks) . They are responsible for removal of the gas meter in your property."

I contacted NGN that same day and was told that this was incorrect. The meter was the property of EON. They asked me to forward the email from EON and said they would sort it out with them.  So I effectively washed my hands of the matter.  I subsequently decided to switch supplier to Octopus and I effectively did this on the 23rd Aug. I still owe EON some money and I am assuming (rather optimistically) that they will send me a final settlement bill. Nothing so far.

Doesn't seem right that they can continue with the DSC. They could just leave the meter there forever, a mini cash cow for them.

Any advice as to how best I should proceed?

Thanks

It's easy to check the situation with your gas meter @minos.

Every gas meter has an MPRN (Meter Point Reference Number). This is registered on a national database called Xoserve, which you can check on the Find My Supplier website.
If your entry is listed there, then you must be liable to pay the DSC to the named Supplier.
It is illegal in the UK to have an active MPRN and no Supplier.

2: The No.1 priority when dealing with gas supplies is SAFETY.
The authorities get 'very upset' when an issue isn't notified to them.

If your listed Supplier is (still) EON, then it their responsibility to send an engineer and remove the gas meter.

At that point they send a Notification to Xoserve, and the MPRN is removed from the asset register.
Only then can you be issued a Final Bill by EON for your gas supply.

3: The EON engineer will probably use the existing handle on the shut-off valve whilst removing the meter, but will also screw a cap on the end of the pipe.
The valve will have a warning label attached.

4: If you receive that Final Bill and have not yet had contact from Northern Gas, then you should attempt to contact them again.
They must either declare that the pipe is regarded as safe, or else state that they intend to cap it in the road.
You need that in writing because it may affect future house insurance premiums.

The ongoing payment of a DSC is what pays for the emergency call-outs that Northern Gas attend to.
A portion also goes towards national schemes such as grants for home insulation.

Very little of the gas DSC can be retained by an Energy Supplier.
It's not designed to be a source of their income, and they may receive less than it costs them to administrate the ongoing charges.

Finally:

a: tell everyone else you know about this (hidden) cost of replacing a fossil-fuel burner with a heat-pump.
I think it really should be a mandatory statement on the quotation from a heat-pump installer, even though it's of no financial interest to them.
MCS could issue a directive to make it obligatory, but I don't hold out much hope for that because they don't have the power to enforce their regulations.

b: if you ever get invited to a public-consultation event by a company in the energy sector, then please go!
That's where issues of what is/isn't fair get discussed.
Major energy transport companies, such as Northern Powergrid, are required by Ofgem to consult on a wide range of topics.
That's how we hold them to account!

When my DNO (which was then Western Power Distribution) needed to ask us about their Net Zero DFES (Distribution Future Energy Strategy), only 84 people in the entire SW peninsula actually took part.

That cuts both ways

• It's a poor reflection on the UK's attitude to Climate Change that more people will glue themselves to a motorway than will use their democratic rights
• as a member of that group of 84, what I contributed had considerable clout!

@transparent After our ASHP was commissioned, I informed Octopu Energy that I no longer had a need for a gas supply and would they arrange to remove the gas meter please. There was some initial confusion over who’s responsibility this was but after a few emails and cross referencing messages from several departments within OE, I had confirmayion that they are responsible and would be in contact about removal shortly; a few weeks later, the meter was removed by OE, the supply turned off, the meter removed, the supply capped and this included a very hefty earth bond link across to the existing (remaining?( pipework from the capped gas main. I hope that in due course, the supply pipe from the road will also be capped off but I have stopped paying any standing charges and have had a confirmation email from OE to the effect that I no longer use or need a gas supply. YMMV. Regards, Toodles

@toodles Thanks toodles. I assume OE was your supplier for gas.  I have contacted EON, they appear willing to remove the meter. Cost me about £160. Tell me, what's this "hefty earth bond link" you speak of?   regards minos

@minos Hello Minos, Yes, OE our my supplier of energy but no longer for gas of course 🙂 I like OE’s ethos and they are very genuine about renewables and everything they do seems to reflect this. OE did not charge for this service though there is a caveat in their website page to the effect that it is a free service but they retain the right to put a charge in place in due course if they feel it is necessary. The ‘hefty’ earth is a copper wire bolted into the ends of the gas pipe and the domestic feed; the overall diameter of the cable is approx 7.5mm. Photos attached but forgive the slightly awkward angles; currently, there are two gert big sunflower plants growing in front of the old meter housing to ‘improve the view’. In case anyone is wondering, I have removed much of the glass fibre housing as it had started to fall apart anyway. Regards, Toodles.

Sorry but the photos didn’t want to go - I’ll try again. Regards, Toodles.

@minos all gas pipes must be provided with an 'earth bond' within 600mm of the point of entry to the property.

The intention is to ensure that the fuse/trip in your consumer unit will blow if there is a short circuit between your electrical wiring and any gas pipes & appliances.
Electrical current must never pass through a gas pipe.
There is a risk of it causing a spark across joins, with obvious consequences.

It is the job of an electrician (not a gas fitter) to ensure that the wire is of adequate size (at least 10mm²) and that path to earth is within the specified limit of no more than 200Ω

If the incoming feed to the property is also metallic, then there is continuity of this earth connection through the metal of the meter itself.
Thus the underground feed is also earthed.

When a meter is removed, the earth connection to the underground feed is lost.
A short length of copper earth wire is connected between the meter gas cap fittings to restore the earthing.

We had our gas meter taken out by Octopus a few months ago.  It’s a plastic pipe rising up, capped off with a metal cap.  The bit ringed in red is the metal bit.  Does that need earthing ?  You can see there’s a handy earthing cable nearby!

nb:  the brown plastic box is our ftth box.