Aira Heat Pump: Stylish Scandinavian Heating

Aira heat pump

Aira has introduced the Aira Heat Pump, a product designed to shift European homes away from gas heating and towards electrification, leveraging advanced smart technology and sleek design.

The Aira Heat Pump is notable for several reasons, including its affordability facilitated by an all-inclusive monthly payment plan, cutting-edge technology and a pioneering 15-year ‘Comfort Guarantee’. The design, inspired by Scandinavian aesthetics, incorporates timeless elements, soft edges, intuitive lighting and a neutral colour palette, ensuring it remains stylish throughout its lifespan.

The product is controlled through a smart app and sleek thermostat, emphasising a digital-first strategy. It also introduces ‘Aira Intelligence’, a smart feature set that adapts to a user’s routine, planning heating and hot water schedules with precision. This system promises up to 40% savings on heating costs and a reduction of at least 75% in CO2 emissions from the outset.

Aira’s offering disrupts the market with its zero upfront cost, monthly payment model, and comprehensive ‘Comfort Guarantee’ covering performance, product and installation. This approach not only makes clean energy technology more accessible but also significantly lowers heating costs and CO2 emissions from day one. The design features ensure the pump blends into its surroundings, complemented by its quiet operation.

With roots in Sweden, a country where heat pump usage is widespread and contributes minimally to CO2 emissions, Aira’s product and engineering teams bring over two decades of experience to the development of this heat pump.

Based on the Aira Heat Pump Fact Sheet, here’s a list of its features and benefits:

Features and benefits

  • High energy efficiency (class A+++ for both outdoor and indoor units).
  • R290 refrigerant.
  • Available in various capacities to suit different household sizes: 6 kW, 8 kW and 12 kW outdoor units.
  • Aira Room Thermostat with intuitive light cues for easy control.
  • Smart connectivity through the Aira Home Energy App for control and monitoring.
  • Aira Intelligence for optimal efficiency, including intelligent temperature control, hot water control, and smart weather mode.
  • 15-year Comfort Guarantee, covering performance, product, and installation.
  • Signature Scandinavian design with low maintenance requirements.
  • Designed for households ranging in size from small (1-2 people) to large (2-6 people).
  • Ensures a comfortable temperature even on the coldest days, as guaranteed by the 15 Year Aira Comfort Guarantee.
  • Allows for significant CO2 emissions reduction and heating cost savings.
  • Tailors heating and hot water production to household routines and preferences, enhancing efficiency.
  • Provides flexibility with the Away Mode and Hot Water Plus features for energy savings and on-demand hot water increase.
  • Adapts to weather changes proactively to maintain indoor comfort.
  • Offers complete user control over heating settings, consumption monitoring, and cost and CO2 savings estimates through the mobile app.
  • Lowers energy consumption and environmental impact by learning and optimizing its operation based on household habits and weather forecasts.
  • Easy installation and minimal maintenance with a comprehensive warranty for peace of mind.
  • Enhances home aesthetics with a sleek, timeless design.

Martin Lewerth, CEO of Aira, emphasised to us the significance of the Aira Heat Pump launch as a milestone in the company’s mission to serve millions of customers, highlighting the environmental and financial benefits for households. Kaj af Kleen, Chief Product and Technology Officer, added that the development process was centered on creating a user-friendly system, underpinned by an intuitive app that offers control and peace of mind to users.

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Derek M
15282 kWhs
8 months ago

But do Aira have all the certificates and accreditation’s to know how to not design and install heating systems correctly?

Toodles
9583 kWhs
Reply to  Derek M
8 months ago

Heating on the “never-never’? Regards, Toodles (Glad to be able to post again! (Sigh)

Derek M
15282 kWhs
8 months ago

I must admit that I was filled with confidence when I read the following line, and also saw that Aira appreciate the benefits of buffer tanks. ☹️ 

Outdoor unit

The outdoor unit draws in and compresses fresh air to heat your home and water. 🙄 

Toodles
9583 kWhs
Reply to  Derek M
8 months ago

They wish to impress upon us that the fresh air is free (I’m not so sure about the ‘fresh’, especially after the latest UK government announcement that they wish to build some more gas-fired power stations, Arrrggh) and if HMRC get to know about air still being free – who’s to say how long before new legislation is introduced…? I think their copy writer needs to work with a proof reader too! Regards, Toodles, back with a vengeance!

Derek M
15282 kWhs
Reply to  Toodles
8 months ago

They wish to impress upon us that the fresh air is free (I’m not so sure about the ‘fresh’, especially after the latest UK government announcement that they wish to build some more gas-fired power stations, Arrrggh) and if HMRC get to know about air still being free – who’s to say how long before new legislation is introduced…? I think their copy writer needs to work with a proof reader too! Regards, Toodles, back with a vengeance!

Hi Toodles, have you been away?

I was more concerned about Aira’s obvious expert knowledge 🙄  of how heat pumps work, rather than whether air is free or not. So if it is only necessary to compress this ‘free’ air to heat your home, why do they bother using a refrigerant gas?

Perhaps Aira staff need to attend one of the MCS training courses?

 

Toodles
9583 kWhs
Reply to  Derek M
8 months ago

🤣 Toodles (The security system took a dislike to me)

Derek M
15282 kWhs
Reply to  Toodles
8 months ago

They wish to impress upon us that the fresh air is free (I’m not so sure about the ‘fresh’, especially after the latest UK government announcement that they wish to build some more gas-fired power stations, Arrrggh) and if HMRC get to know about air still being free – who’s to say how long before new legislation is introduced…? I think their copy writer needs to work with a proof reader too! Regards, Toodles, back with a vengeance!

Of course there will be the need for more gas fired power stations in the future, otherwise we will not have any electrical power when the wind is not blowing and the Sun is not shining.

What is rather annoying is that we as consumers will have to foot the bill for these new power stations, after government policy had forced many of the previous, still operational, gas fired power stations to shut down and be decommissioned.

Highly useful forward planning. 😜 

 

AllyFish
3875 kWhs
8 months ago

No data sheets or produce literature yet, but a very glossy product launch. It’s a branded Vaillant product, so it should be good. I’m not a great fan of the beige box look of most outdoor monobloc ASHPs, but that Aira washboard front grille, it’ll take forever to keep clean! The beige box wipes clean in 30 seconds. 😉
I share Derek’s concern, the Aira product itself can’t offer any guarantees of efficiency, energy saving and life cycle cost reduction, but here’s another brand doing exactly that via their web site with a few clicks of a mouse. As a system it is only as efficient as it’s weakest part, which for retrofits (and far too many new builds) is the hydronic circuit it is connected to and the competency or otherwise of the installer.
In 10 years time ASHPs will have either revolutionised the European & UK domestic heating market, or become the latest mass mis-selling scandal. Time will tell.

IvanOpinion
798 kWhs
Reply to  AllyFish
8 months ago

It’s a branded Vaillant product, so it should be good.
Are you saying the ‘Aira’ heat pump is really a Vaillant, just with a different brand name and a different exterior casing? I know they started with installations using actual Vaillant models, but I did not know the Aira brand replacement is just a white label version. Aira has its own factory in Poland.
 

IvanOpinion
798 kWhs
Reply to  Mars
8 months ago

I have them coming to do a survey soon, so I’ll ask the surveyor. In a way, it would be reassuring if it is just a rebadged and reskinned Vaillant, rather than completely new. Though surely you don’t build a new factory just to fit the exterior cladding? Maybe they are assembling the whole thing, using Vaillant designs and, perhaps, components?

IvanOpinion
798 kWhs
Reply to  Mars
8 months ago

Will do.
I’m hoping they will be a good compromise between Octopus and Heat Geek. Heat Geek are really impressive and I’m convinced would give me a really good system, but they cost £10k more than Octopus. The decision isn’t just about money, but I can’t say money is no object. Although I’d probably save a bit more electric with HG, there’s no way I’d recoup £10k over the life of the heat pump. Octopus are staggeringly cheap, but they have overestimated my heat loss and are specifying a pump that is too powerful, so it cannot modulate enough to be efficient during autumn and spring.
It will be interesting to see if Aria are any better than Octopus. They are certainly slick with the marketing and the product aesthetics, but, as highlighted in this thread, they might be prioritising easy install and maintenance over optimal performance.

Toodles
9583 kWhs
Reply to  IvanOpinion
8 months ago

@IvanOpinion I suppose that as there are no free lunches in this world, the Aria price has to incorporate likely costs for the 15 years of annual servicing and maintenance contract and I think it is also a hire purchase or lease type of purchase without a great initial outlay isn’t it? Regards, Toodles.

IvanOpinion
798 kWhs
Reply to  Toodles
8 months ago

@Toodles I think in the UK you pay for it all in the first year, but spread over 12 months. So the risk is more that you have prepaid for 15 years of maintenance, but if they go bust then you never receive it.

Toodles
9583 kWhs
Reply to  Mars
8 months ago

Or bronze, copper or summat! 😉

IvanOpinion
798 kWhs
Reply to  Mars
8 months ago

That’s a shame, as it introduces more risk that the product might not be any good.

Abernyte
3729 kWhs
Reply to  Mars
8 months ago


@IvanOpinion I got a very definitive reply from Aira this morning: “The Aira Heat pump is not based on or produced by Vaillant."
Black and white. So it’s their own unit.

Which seems at odds with this article:
By switching to one of its heat pumps, which are currently built by German manufacturer Vaillant, Aira claims that households can save 25% on heating-related costs. The firm said production of its own-brand heat pumps would begin in Poland in 2024.
Mmm..
 

IvanOpinion
798 kWhs
Reply to  Abernyte
8 months ago

@Abernyte They used to use Vaillant until the factory started, which it apparently now has, as they no longer use Vaillant. I don’t see the contradiction.

Majordennisbloodnok
Editor
6667 kWhs
8 months ago

There’s a lot of “inspired by", “timeless elements", “facilitated by", “leveraging" and “disrupting the market" in this marketing blurb. If I was playing bull***t bingo I’d have called out already.
Whilst I’m aware they want to sell the product, my main issue is that there is a lot of implication it’s a product designed for use in Scandinavia (which would be a good thing considering how robust they need their kit to be) but nothing in there that actually claims it directly. 

“With its roots in Sweden…"
“The design, inspired by Scandinavian aesthetics…"
“Signature Scandinavian design…"
“Ensures a comfortable temperature even on the coldest days…" (how cold is coldest?)

It may well walk the walk too but all I’m seeing at the moment is smoke and mirrors riding in on the coat tails of real Scandinavian ASHP installations. The consumers making up the current UK heat pump market are confused enough already without having to wade through weasel words.

AllyFish
3875 kWhs
8 months ago


There’s a lot of “inspired by", “timeless elements", “facilitated by", “leveraging" and “disrupting the market" in this marketing blurb. If I was playing bull***t bingo I’d have called out already

I had a good chuckle at this. 😉 The Aira YouTube product launch was targeting Germany, Italy and the UK markets, as a group launch of branded Vaillant product into those countries. Vaillant is made in Germany. There’s a lot of marketing BS around ‘Scandinavian countries are cold so we know how to make heat pumps work’. The HVAC Engineer in me shouts “it’s all about the absolute moisture content, stupid!" – Cold and dry Scandi weather is less arduous for a heat pump than the milder 100% humidity freezing fog perma-dank we get. The ice maker on my patio is testament to that.
I long to see an ASHP without a parasitic reverse cycle defrost method that robs heat of the hydronic circuit. Ebac has gone half way with a passive defrost feature, but is the only manufacturer I know to do so. I have a 30yr old Ebac CD30 industrial dehumidifier in my garage, still working, on R12 gas. It uses hot gas defrost, which is incredibly quick and efficient. They know a thing or two about this.

Toodles
9583 kWhs
Reply to  AllyFish
8 months ago

@AllyFish As I was reading the bumph about Scandi weather, I was thinking exactly the same! Apart from perhaps in Indonesia , are there any other such high humidity challenged environments? I suspect the UK is the highest in greater Europe anyway! Regards, Toodles.

Derek M
15282 kWhs
Reply to  Toodles
8 months ago

@AllyFish As I was reading the bumph about Scandi weather, I was thinking exactly the same! Apart from perhaps in Indonesia , are there any other such high humidity challenged environments? I suspect the UK is the highest in greater Europe anyway! Regards, Toodles.

I spent 4 years working in Pakistan, not too far from Karachi, on the Arabian Sea coast, where the humidity was so high that after rain there would be remaining puddles of water for several weeks because the water could not evaporate even in blazing sunshine.

The requirement there of course was for cooling rather than heating.

I do believe that the Vancouver area of Canada has a similar climate to the UK.

 

Toodles
9583 kWhs
Reply to  Derek M
8 months ago

Oh well, we are not alone then! Toodles.

Majordennisbloodnok
Editor
6667 kWhs
Reply to  AllyFish
8 months ago



There’s a lot of “inspired by", “timeless elements", “facilitated by", “leveraging" and “disrupting the market" in this marketing blurb. If I was playing bull***t bingo I’d have called out already

I had a good chuckle at this. 😉 The Aira YouTube product launch was targeting Germany, Italy and the UK markets, as a group launch of branded Vaillant product into those countries. Vaillant is made in Germany. There’s a lot of marketing BS around ‘Scandinavian countries are cold so we know how to make heat pumps work’. The HVAC Engineer in me shouts “it’s all about the absolute moisture content, stupid!" – Cold and dry Scandi weather is less arduous for a heat pump than the milder 100% humidity freezing fog perma-dank we get. The ice maker on my patio is testament to that.
I long to see an ASHP without a parasitic reverse cycle defrost method that robs heat of the hydronic circuit. Ebac has gone half way with a passive defrost feature, but is the only manufacturer I know to do so. I have a 30yr old Ebac CD30 industrial dehumidifier in my garage, still working, on R12 gas. It uses hot gas defrost, which is incredibly quick and efficient. They know a thing or two about this.

To be frank, I hadn’t really thought about it like that but it makes perfect sense. That said, I think it perhaps even reinforces rather than detracts from the point I was making about the bandying about of language that implies suitability without actually claiming it. 
In Terry Pratchett’s book “The Light Fantastic", there is a wonderful quote covering this very topic.

“…descriptive writing is very rarely entirely accurate and during the reign of Olaf Quimby II as Patrician of Ankh some legislation was passed in a determined attempt to put a stop to this sort of thing and introduce some honesty into reporting. Thus, if a legend said of a notable hero that “all men spoke of his prowess” any bard who valued his life would add hastily “except for a couple of people in his home village who thought he was a liar, and quite a lot of other people who had never really heard of him.” Poetic simile was strictly limited to statements like “his mighty steed was as fleet as the wind on a fairly calm day, say about Force Three,” and any loose talk about a beloved having a face that launched a thousand ships would have to be backed by evidence that the object of desire did indeed look like a bottle of champagne."

Oh that we could hold Marketing departments to the same standards.
 

Abernyte
3729 kWhs
8 months ago

The company are extremely tight lipped about what is inside the case. Their PR is to manufacture an “Aira branded product", so where have a company that owns an energy storage company, a battery cell manufacturer and a steel producer acquired the experience in HP design and manufacture ( since 2015) or is it going to be a Grant/Chofu type OEM clone?  Enquiring minds would like to know, that’s all.
 

IvanOpinion
798 kWhs
Reply to  Abernyte
8 months ago

Enquiring minds would like to know, that’s all.

Completely agree on that. I’ll be quizzing the surveyor, though I imagine they won’t know.
 

IvanOpinion
798 kWhs
Reply to  IvanOpinion
8 months ago


I’ll be quizzing the surveyor, though I imagine they won’t know.

He said they have based the kit on existing technology, but the controls and app are new.
 

AllyFish
3875 kWhs
8 months ago


He said they have based the kit on existing technology, but the controls and app are new.

It’ll be a fairly standard R290 ASHP internally I think, covers, panels and grilles might be customised. They all come with serial Modbus comms now, from which 3rd parties can create user or installer control apps for remote control and monitoring, etc. That was what Aira were showcasing in their release video – it was all about the App & not the product. Such is the world these days, but the App is only as good as what it is controlling, the heat pump, which itself is only as good as the installation is. There’s a lot of variables at play – and for Aira to offer a 15 year guarantee means they either have an unprecedented control of the variables, or their guarantee is riddled with get-out clauses, especially the performance and efficiency guarantees. The 54year old cynic in me favours the latter.
I would be very surprised if Aira design & launch a completely new ASHP product from the ground up.

IvanOpinion
798 kWhs
Reply to  AllyFish
8 months ago

or their guarantee is riddled with get-out clauses, especially the performance and efficiency guarantees. 

Good point. I’ll ask to see a full copy of the wording. And get clarification whether they are guaranteeing efficiency.
 

IvanOpinion
798 kWhs
8 months ago

I found the details of the warranty. I don’t see any unreasonable get out clauses. And it is insurance backed. The only issue I can see is that it looks like they don’t guarantee the SCOP.
“The Warranty includes: 
the proper working of the air source heat pump; and  
the air source heat pump’s ability to maintain minimum indoor temperature as follows: 

Room 

Temp. (˚C) 

Living room 

21 

Dining room 

21 

Bedsitting room 

21 

Bedroom 

18 

Hall and landing 

18 

Kitchen 

18 

Bathroom 

22 

Toilet 

18 

 
The air source heat pump’s ability to maintain the above indoor temperature is conditional on the outside temperature not falling below the lowest expected temperature for the location where the air source heat pump is installed. You can find a list of the lowest expected temperatures in the Appendix to these Terms…
…If the air source heat pump fails to work properly within the Warranty Period, you shall contact us to inspect and arrange any necessary repairs. We may also contact you to inspect the air source heat pump system during the Warranty Period if we have reason to believe that there is an issue with it. We shall attempt to fix any identified issue at least three times. We may carry out any repairs or replacements that we deem necessary in order to fix the air source heat pump, which may include replacing the whole or part of the air source heat pump, adding or increasing the size of radiators, or changing pipework. You agree to allow us to carry out any and all inspections, repairs or replacements deemed necessary by us in order to get the air source heat pump working and complying with the Warranty. If you prevent us from doing this, it will invalidate the Warranty. 
We reserve the right to use qualified technical personnel of our own or companies operating in the same industry.  
If you do not report any defect to us as soon as reasonably possible and within two months from the date it was discovered, you shall not be able to ask us to fix the air source heat pump under the Warranty.  
You must not allow any third parties to carry out any repairs or other work involving tampering with the air source heat pump, and if you do, this shall invalidate the Warranty.  
If we are unable to fix the air source heat pump and get it working under the Warranty, we will refund the purchase price to you. 
If you sell your home which has the air source heat pump in it, the Warranty can be transferred to a new owner if you notify the change of ownership to us by e-mail to contact@airahome.com or by sending us a letter in the post. The new owner is then bound by the provisions of these Terms."
 

Abernyte
3729 kWhs
8 months ago


Their goal is to elevate the industry’s benchmarks,

How does that square with them using a 40 ltr buffer? I thought that buffers and LLH’s were the villains of the piece? Their marketing is undoubtably flashy and the word salad is second to none but why do I get an uncomfortable feeling that it is all fur coat and no knickers?

Toodles
9583 kWhs
Reply to  Mars
8 months ago

A guarantee of comfort levels is one thing but… is this going to be achievable at a decent COP? Is COP featured as much in their flashy presentation as comfort levels are? Cynically yours, Toodles.

Brendon Uys
2228 kWhs
Reply to  Mars
8 months ago

It is a physical and practical impossibility to balance a buffer in all instances and with varying loads, flow rates, temperatures and compressor outputs. It is quite simple really, if you have 1 side fixed, and the other variable, or the 2 side vary independently, there is no chance of maintaining a balance. To balance the buffer, the flow rates, temperatures and load have to be identical, on both sides, all the time without exception. Any variation, causes a reduction in efficiency. Basic Thermodynamics.

Trevor
57 kWhs
Reply to  Mars
15 days ago

They don’t mess around doing temporary fix’s. We may have a solenoid problem. They said if it is faulty then they would exchange the heat pump not just the solenoid. They would then disassemble the old unit to look at improving things and to make sure there’s no design problem.

IvanOpinion
798 kWhs
8 months ago

They do seem to hit what might be a sweet spot for a chunk of the market. I’ve had 5 quotes for a heat pump and they are cheaper than all except Octopus.
They have specified a buffer in their quote to me, so I’ve asked them to explain why it is better.

Brendon Uys
2228 kWhs
7 months ago

Caution everyone, this manual stipulates the installation of a buffer tank, so, the promised guaranty of supplying sufficient heat, may come at a very high price.
The unit is no quieter than any other unit out there (57 DB)
It says it has an “Operation limit temperature (TOL) -10ºC" then says “Operating limits -25°C to 45°C"  Take your pick.
The 10 Kw does not comply with permitted development, it is 0.72 m3, therefore needs planning permission for every installation.
It is not on the ENA database yet so connection may be an issue.
Just pointing the facts out, there is a lot of sales BS out there.
 

Majordennisbloodnok
Editor
6667 kWhs
7 months ago


Just pointing the facts out, there is a lot of sales BS out there

You surprise me, 🥸

IvanOpinion
798 kWhs
7 months ago

I’ve learned some more from my discussions with Aira.
They still fit Vaillants if the customer prefers. The warranty is reduced to 5 years, compared to 15 for the Aira own brand. For me, a Vaillant would be about £1k higher price.
The 8kW Aira ASHP has a minimum output of 3.8kW. I’m surprised that it can only modulate down by a half. This seems to raise concerns about cycling in mild weather.
Their reasons for specifying a buffer tank are to guarantee minimum volume in the system for defrost and stop regular start-stops of the system which affects COP and wear on the compressor. I’m going to ask for more details of how they ensure balanced flow rates both sides.
The customer cannot adjust the weather compensation curve. This seems to mean that if actual heat loss is different from the modelled heat loss (as it often will be), the weather compensation will be sub-optimal and the customer cannot do anything about this. Perhaps their system can automatically tweak the curve – I’m going to ask.
Although they quote a firm price based on a short inspection, you don’t find out what SCOP they expect until they do the heat loss survey. To do that, you need to accept the quote, so you need to sign up without knowing one of the most crucial aspects of the system design. However, you do have the right to cancel. They seem to think that once the design is done you would owe them £500 if you cancelled then, though I don’t think that’s the effect of their T&Cs. (To be fair, Heat Geeks require you to pay £350 for them to come and do the survey, so not that different.)

HCas
684 kWhs
Reply to  IvanOpinion
7 months ago

@IvanOpinion Thank you! Keen to hear more about the WC point. Quite strange that customers wouldn’t be able to adjust that!

IvanOpinion
798 kWhs
Reply to  HCas
7 months ago


@IvanOpinion Thank you! Keen to hear more about the WC point. Quite strange that customers wouldn’t be able to adjust that!
They told me that they monitor the heat pump remotely and can make adjustments if necessary. The implication was that this would include optimising the curve, though they did not explicitly say so.
This perhaps raises another concern about Aira. Their system does lots of clever stuff, including this remote monitoring, but also using weather forecasts to adjust the output in anticipation and working out your hot water usage and adjusting the HW production accordingly. That’s great, but it does mean that Aira customers are reliant on Aira continuing to run its servers and keep the app updated, for the 20-odd years of life of the ASHP.
I guess this is true for all ASHP manufacturers, because (AFAIK) all their controls run via apps and depend on servers on the cloud. But Aira are a start up, which I think means there’s a higher risk that they might not be around in 5 years time than for, say, Vaillant or Daikin. The repair and maintenance warranty on Aira is insurance backed, but I’m assuming there are no arrangements to ensure continuity of operation of the servers and updates of the app. 
 

Majordennisbloodnok
Editor
6667 kWhs
Reply to  IvanOpinion
7 months ago



This perhaps raises another concern about Aira. Their system does lots of clever stuff, including this remote monitoring, but also using weather forecasts to adjust the output in anticipation and working out your hot water usage and adjusting the HW production accordingly. That’s great, but it does mean that Aira customers are reliant on Aira continuing to run its servers and keep the app updated, for the 20-odd years of life of the ASHP.
I guess this is true for all ASHP manufacturers, because (AFAIK) all their controls run via apps and depend on servers on the cloud. But Aira are a start up, which I think means there’s a higher risk that they might not be around in 5 years time than for, say, Vaillant or Daikin. The repair and maintenance warranty on Aira is insurance backed, but I’m assuming there are no arrangements to ensure continuity of operation of the servers and updates of the app.  

I quite agree. Everything Aira is touting seems to be focused on removing control from the customer’s hands. That’s worrying.
As for the other ASHP manufacturers, that’s not quite the same. Yes, they all provide IoT-enabled solutions with apps, APIs and cloud storage, but they are provided supplementary to what is basically a hardware choice on the customer’s part. Moreover, if a customer wants to remove reliance on the manufacturer’s remote systems they can do so by use of the on-site controls (either a box on the wall or talking via something like Modbus to control locally).
Aira’s approach feels to me only a hop, skip and a jump away from introducing a model whereby the installed kit is “leased" and never actually owned by the customer despite having to wear the up-front cost. Rather heavy-handed, it feels.
 

IvanOpinion
798 kWhs
Reply to  Majordennisbloodnok
7 months ago


Aira’s approach feels to me only a hop, skip and a jump away from introducing a model whereby the installed kit is “leased" and never actually owned by the customer despite having to wear the up-front cost. Rather heavy-handed, it feels.
 
I think their preferred business model is that the payments are spread over 10 or 15 years, so this is in effect a lease. In the UK, regulations make it difficult for them to do this, so payments are only spread over 12 months. But perhaps this explains Aira’s approach: they think of themselves as offering a heating service, not just an installation. 
If the payments were spread over 10 years then that would be more reassuring, because there’s an incentive for Aira to continue to support installed machines and the customer would just stop paying if the support is withdrawn.
 

HCas
684 kWhs
Reply to  Mars
7 months ago

Agree, definitely a trend. We’ve seen the same with solar PV. Some do it for batteries as well. Heat pumps is slightly less straightforward but will get there. I know in the Netherlands it was quite popular for a while.

IanMK13
2446 kWhs
Reply to  IvanOpinion
7 months ago


That’s great, but it does mean that Aira customers are reliant on Aira continuing to run its servers and keep the app updated, for the 20-odd years of life of the ASHP.

That’s why I didn’t go for a Tado controller for my boiler control 7 or 8 years ago.  Instead, I went with a Drayton miGenie internet-enabled controller.  Despite my forward-thinking, Drayton have recently stopped support for this so now my App doesn’t work and reprogramming the timer and temperature is a right faff! My strategy now is to use Home Assistant and make sure I can control everything myself.

….
Aira’s approach feels to me only a hop, skip and a jump away from introducing a model whereby the installed kit is “leased" and never actually owned by the customer despite having to wear the up-front cost. Rather heavy-handed, it feels.

Like ‘Software as a a service’….

Majordennisbloodnok
Editor
6667 kWhs
7 months ago


Like ‘Software as a a service’….

Precisely

Abernyte
3729 kWhs
7 months ago

I know nothing of this company Fornax other than what I have gleaned and from their website. They have been trading for less than 18 months and have capital of less than £80,000. They are selling a credit agreement funding package to purchase a heating system installed by a “local heating engineer" and are an appointed representative of an investment – seed capital product design company. There is no reference on their site to whose HP they are installing.  How do you see them being forced to uphold a long term guarantee?
Like Aira they do have a flashy website though.

IvanOpinion
798 kWhs
Reply to  Mars
7 months ago

Based on my experience, the answer is no, unless the house is abnormally well insulated. Heat Geeks do a guarantee of performance at MCS standard room temps (and charge handsomely for it), but their quote to me refers to a SCOP of 3.6, which is no higher than Octopus are projecting. So, they are setting a pretty low bar for performance.  Aira don’t guarantee any SCOP (other than the MCS minimum of 2.8). But their marketing calculates cost savings using a comparison of 20000 kWh of gas vs 4500 kWh of electric. They don’t specify what level of efficiency of gas boiler they assume, but with 90% that would be 18000kWh of heat, so a SCOP of 4. They claim a SCOP of 4.7 for their own-brand units, but that is at 35 degrees average and they do not disclose the figures for other water temperature averages. I don’t know how realistic a 35 degree average is, for a normal house. Aira perhaps need to rein in their marketing people a bit, because when I detect BS in some of what they claim, I then get very sceptical about other claims, such as SCOPs and quality. An example of BS is the claimed cost savings over the life of the heat pump. Most of the savings turn out to relate to not paying for servicing of a gas boiler for 20 years. They calculate this based on £40 per month, but that must be a cherry picked figure. Most people will be paying more like half that for boiler cover. For those people, the savings will be about £4k lower.

IvanOpinion
798 kWhs
Reply to  Mars
6 months ago


@IvanOpinion where are you up to and have you made any further decisions?
I might change my mind again, but I’m currently unlikely to go with Aira, mainly due to their product being brand new, so an unknown quality. And worries about it being so dependent on them maintaining the app and cloud services for the life of the product. Although they are cheaper than Heat Geeks, the cost difference is relatively small, so between the two I favour Heat Geeks.
The other contender is Octopus, who are more than £7k cheaper than Heat Geeks, so are the clear winner if cost is the only determinant. Even assuming Heat Geeks gave me a SCOP significantly higher, I’d never claw back the extra cost in power savings. I’m waiting for Octopus to do a resurvey, one of the purposes of which is to reconsider the heat loss (and thus the size of ASHP). If they agree to a lower power ASHP, they will have fixed one of my main concerns. My other main concern is that they include a buffer in their system, but is it worth £7k extra to get an unbuffered system? If Octopus insist on specifying an overpowered ASHP, I think that will make it easier for me to justify paying the extra.
 

IvanOpinion
798 kWhs
Reply to  Mars
3 months ago


@IvanOpinion where are you up to and have you made any further decisions?
Just to round off some loose ends from my contributions to this thread, in the end I decided not to go with Aira. I realised that the various compromises and limitations would niggle at me, so I decided to pay the extra for my local Heat Geek. I don’t expect to recoup the extra install cost in electricity savings; if cost was the deciding factor I would have gone with Aira. So, I’m paying extra because I think I’ll get a system that doesn’t rankle with me.
HG are just finishing the install, which looks good so far, though I guess I won’t know how well it works until December.
The things that put me off Aira don’t mean I won’t be recommending them to friends. Most people won’t want to be able to tweak their weather compensation curve or even understand why you might want to do so. Nor will they want to see feedback of what their ASHP is doing. They won’t know or care why it is suboptimal to have an unnecessary buffer or an outdoor temperature sensor that has to be at the back of the ASHP. Essentially, I’m paying more for Heat Geek because I did too much research (on sites like this), which means I understand how Aira are simplifying and compromising in ways that I think make sense for the bulk of the market. Most people just want something that replaces their gas boiler, keeps them warm, costs not much more than a gas boiler to install and costs no more to run. Aira is aiming to deliver that.
 

HCas
684 kWhs
Reply to  IvanOpinion
3 months ago

@IvanOpinion Good perspective! Apologies if this is somewhere else on the forum but which brand did you go for? I’m guessing Vaillant or Viessmann since you go with Heat Geek?

GunboatDiplomat
981 kWhs
7 months ago

On the whole marketing claims vs reality on performance I came across this Are ASHP datasheets reliable? | Crog.Uk which highlights another example where manufacturer marketing data sheets don’t seem to marry up with other figures like the MCS SCOP.

Johnmo
2252 kWhs
5 months ago


touting seems to be focused on removing control from the customer’s hands. That’s worrying.

But could be sensible for 90% of the public that would change it to heat for an hour in the morning and 6 hours at night. Then wonder why they use so much electricity (immersion in buffer kicking in) and the house is cold.

Johnmo
2252 kWhs
5 months ago


The other contender is Octopus, who are more than £7k cheaper than Heat Geeks, so are the clear winner if cost is the only determinant.

The real difference in performance is gained by radiators and the size specified. Big rads low flow temps. Fully open system single zone. Save £7k run and see how low you can flow, if required spend another £1k upping the main living space radiators size. Save £6k

Johnmo
2252 kWhs
5 months ago


include a buffer in their system

Can you get them to plumb as a 2 port buffer? Then you only get flow through the buffer if zones are closed, keep them open nothing flows through it?

1 Buffer Tank
Johnmo
2252 kWhs
5 months ago


Octopus insist on specifying an overpowered ASHP, I think that will make it easier for me to justify paying the extra.

But only if minimum turndown is significantly different. As a good system volume (50L plus) will support 6kW without short cycling, nearly all heat pump turndown to that level. They are also specifying a buffer, if it’s a 2 port all good, if 4 port lots of mixing likely and CoP hit.

JamesPa
Editor
7708 kWhs
Reply to  Johnmo
5 months ago



Octopus insist on specifying an overpowered ASHP, I think that will make it easier for me to justify paying the extra.

But only if minimum turndown is significantly different. As a good system volume (50L plus) will support 6kW without short cycling, nearly all heat pump turndown to that level. They are also specifying a buffer, if it’s a 2 port all good, if 4 port lots of mixing likely and CoP hit.

Octopus may be relying on their tarifs to compensate for any ‘loss’ in efficiency.  The risk of course is that tariffs change, and unless there are guarantees then, as usual, caveat emptor.
I would press for a 2 port buffer/volumiser in the return and ask about turn down to half the design loss, which is where the heat pump will be operating most of the time.
If octopus are still fitting Daikin then it’s worth being aware that Daikin appears to cap the output of some of their models in firmware, to give the appearance that they offer more variants than is really the case (and of course offer opportunities for price differentiation).  The turn down power is not affected, so from an engineering point of view you might as well go for the highest power in any group of models which in fact have the same hardware.  Octopus will know this so probably specify the ‘top’ end of each group anyway, and doubtless have a deal with Daikin that they are not charged extra for the different arrangement of bits in the firmware.

IvanOpinion
798 kWhs
Reply to  JamesPa
5 months ago

Thanks to you and Johnmo for the comments. In my case, Octopus have pulled out as their policy is not to do any work on flat or sloping roofs, which means there’s no viable path for the pipes from ASHP to cylinder. So Daikin oversizing no longer a problem. My choice is Aira or £4k extra for a Heat Geek firm (or a further £9k for another Heat Geek firm). But many of your comments apply equally to Aira, who currently specify buffers as standard.
Perhaps Heat Geek will convince them this normally unnecessary. I’m wondering how long it will take for Heat Geek training to impact on the Aira policies for system design. Mars, can you ask?
I hadn’t appreciated the distinction between 2 and 4 port buffers. Is there an explanation you can point me to? Can you tell from the photos whether the Aira buffer is 2 or 4
By turndown, do you mean the lowest power that the ASHP can modulate down to? Aira have told me their 8kW model modulates to 3.7.
 

Johnmo
2252 kWhs
5 months ago


By turndown, do you mean the lowest power that the ASHP can modulate down to? Aira have told me their 8kW model modulates to 3.7.

Yes that is correct
If you don’t mind me asking, are those prices after the grant? If so what are you getting for that money? I went self installation because I really couldn’t be bothered with all the over pricing going on. Think my total install came to about £3k. £1200 for heat of eBay, £900 for cylinder from city plumbing. Then mostly pipe, fittings and insulation. Assume you need radiators also?

IvanOpinion
798 kWhs
Reply to  Johnmo
5 months ago

If you don’t mind me asking, are those prices after the grant? …. Assume you need radiators also?
Yes, £6500 with Aira after grant and £10,500 with Heat Geek. 6 or 7 new radiators with both. Self install is not something I’d be comfortable with doing.
 

Johnmo
2252 kWhs
5 months ago

Have you tried Grant? They use local plumbers to do the work and the design and commissioning is done by people that know what they are doing.there nothing magically about R290, I would be quite comfortable going R32. Design of system is the important bit.

IvanOpinion
798 kWhs
Reply to  Johnmo
5 months ago


Have you tried Grant? They use local plumbers to do the work and the design and commissioning is done by people that know what they are doing.there nothing magically about R290, I would be quite comfortable going R32. Design of system is the important bit.
I take it that Grant don’t do R290? My concern about R32 is that it has 200 times the global warming potential.
 

Toodles
9583 kWhs
Reply to  IvanOpinion
5 months ago

@IvanOpinion I have wondered about this business of global warming potential of the various gases used. I think there is only a potential of releasing any of the gas into the atmosphere if there were a leak and that during normal use, no gas should be released. The actual quantity of gas used is, I am given to understand, relatively small. I’m also told that the gas is extracted safely at the end of life for the pump. Of course, I may be living in cloud cuckoo land and I have it completely wrong? Regards, Toodles.

IvanOpinion
798 kWhs
Reply to  Toodles
5 months ago

@Toodles I was assuming the same thing. So, it might not be an issue. I’m not sure how often the refrigerant leaks.

Toodles
9583 kWhs
Reply to  IvanOpinion
5 months ago

@IvanOpinion I heard of a batch of Daikin heat pumps that left the factory short measured on R32, but, that was a case of underfilling rather than leakage I believe. Mind you, I do think twice before I light up the butane powered barbecue these days – so I suppose this is due to heightened awareness. 🫘😉. Regards Toodles.

Johnmo
2252 kWhs
5 months ago


I take it that Grant don’t do R290? My concern about R32 is that it has 200 times the global warming potential.

Grant not looked at there current line up for a while so don’t know.
You need to have a leak for the global warming effect to take place. How many fridges leak their gas away in the 20 years, they sit in a kitchen? A monobloc heat pump should be no different it’s just a little bigger.
R290 is basically propane, so you have restrictions on location.
SCoP CoP are very similar R290 or R32, you can heat to 70 degrees with R290 and around 60 with R32. Do you need the additional 10 degs, most likely not. Good chance your paying an additional £1 to £1.5k for R290 over R32, no idea why as the components used to make the heat pump are almost identical.

Pie_Eater
251 kWhs
4 months ago

Just to add a bit of my experience with Aira.
Their sales team is quite slick and very efficient. Within 1 week I had quote at a good price, and another week later a heat loss & design study was done. Everything was well considered and detailed . I was very excited to go ahead, as they seem to really know their stuff plus the comfort guarantee takes a lot of concern of the table. They specced the 8kw and a buffer tank. Very very good experience before install, way better than other (4 quotes + octopus). Very good price for a great looking system.
Installation was booked in promptly and 3 installation crews turned up on time, all good communication and friendly. Professional staff.
Then unfortunately things went south quite quickly…Within 30 minutes the install crew had identified a few flaws in the survey:
– surveyor forgot to add legs in the dimensions for the pump, adding 40cm. So the pump would now block my window view and opening.
– surveyor forgot about a few cable runs from ASHP to tank as well as a new consumer unit requiring its own power to the tank. Due to my house design (ASHP , water tank, buffer tank and grid meter all at opposite ends of the house ) those cable runs became impossible to run.
– bizarly the surveyor did not consider the internal pipework ; the installers thought all pipework to buffer had to be upgraded to 28mm , whereas surveyor though 22mm was enough).
They left after an hour . Real shame as I was keen on their system but the surveyor clearly needed more experience. I was never contacted after for any form of debrief/ what went wrong type conversation which I still find odd, as it must’ve cost them quite a lot.
So can’t comment on their system working, but other than not installing it was great.

Toodles
9583 kWhs
Reply to  Pie_Eater
4 months ago

@Pie_Eater I hope they wrote up the experience to use in their training sessions? Toodles.

Johnmo
2252 kWhs
Reply to  Pie_Eater
4 months ago


Just to add a bit of my experience with Aira.
Their sales team is quite slick and very efficient. Within 1 week I had quote at a good price, and another week later a heat loss & design study was done. Everything was well considered and detailed . I was very excited to go ahead, as they seem to really know their stuff plus the comfort guarantee takes a lot of concern of the table. They specced the 8kw and a buffer tank. Very very good experience before install, way better than other (4 quotes + octopus). Very good price for a great looking system.
Installation was booked in promptly and 3 installation crews turned up on time, all good communication and friendly. Professional staff.
Then unfortunately things went south quite quickly…Within 30 minutes the install crew had identified a few flaws in the survey:
– surveyor forgot to add legs in the dimensions for the pump, adding 40cm. So the pump would now block my window view and opening.
– surveyor forgot about a few cable runs from ASHP to tank as well as a new consumer unit requiring its own power to the tank. Due to my house design (ASHP , water tank, buffer tank and grid meter all at opposite ends of the house ) those cable runs became impossible to run.
– bizarly the surveyor did not consider the internal pipework ; the installers thought all pipework to buffer had to be upgraded to 28mm , whereas surveyor though 22mm was enough).
They left after an hour . Real shame as I was keen on their system but the surveyor clearly needed more experience. I was never contacted after for any form of debrief/ what went wrong type conversation which I still find odd, as it must’ve cost them quite a lot.
So can’t comment on their system working, but other than not installing it was great.

By that point they are in a legally binding agreement I thought, they should have their MCS certificate withdrawn.
 

MikeH
536 kWhs
Reply to  Pie_Eater
4 months ago

@Pie_Eater Did they walk away to re-asses or have they cancelled the contract? I have signed with Aira and have had my heat loss survey. They are working on the design and applying for planning on my behalf we need the 12kW unit.

Toodles
9583 kWhs
Reply to  MikeH
4 months ago

@MikeH If I understood the original posting correctly, I would imagine all their installations would require PP if they mount the pumps on a 40 cm high stand!
And thinking about the roll-up of three crews, that must mean 6 or more engineers wasted half a day at least – on top of which, there would be the time taken to issue and load the stock required on site and all the appropriate paper work. I would imagine that that lot must come to at least £1,000. On top of all this, there would be the survey costs…..
Regards, Toodles

Derek M
15282 kWhs
Reply to  Toodles
4 months ago

@MikeH If I understood the original posting correctly, I would imagine all their installations would require PP if they mount the pumps on a 40 cm high stand!

And thinking about the roll-up of three crews, that must mean 6 or more engineers wasted half a day at least – on top of which, there would be the time taken to issue and load the stock required on site and all the appropriate paper work. I would imagine that that lot must come to at least £1,000. On top of all this, there would be the survey costs…..

Regards, Toodles

What’s that saying “measure twice, cut once". I wonder if the ‘surveyor’ received a promotion to ‘manager’?

 

squeakysim
563 kWhs
Reply to  Pie_Eater
4 months ago

@Pie_Eater of the 4 quotes you’ve had, how many heat loss surveys have you paid for?? This is the part I always struggle with, how can you obtain comparable quotes if you need to outlay 3-500 quid every time?!!

Pie_Eater
251 kWhs
Reply to  squeakysim
4 months ago

@squeakysim actually none !
octopus and Aira do it for free. the last one was via a friend . In some ways paying for a properly independent view (say heat geek) , would be preferable- the line between survey and wanting a sale is very thin I think.

IvanOpinion
798 kWhs
Reply to  Pie_Eater
4 months ago


…Aira do it for free.
It may have been free for you because they have had to cancel through no fault of yours. But the customer has to sign the contract before they do the full survey and under the T&C’s they reserve the right to charge for work performed (including the survey and design) if the client subsequently pulls out. 
 

Pie_Eater
251 kWhs
Reply to  IvanOpinion
4 months ago

@IvanOpinion you know what – maybe I did pay a deposit! I can’t remember now, I’ll check.

Toodles
9583 kWhs
4 months ago

There is a saying along the lines of ‘Promoted up the chain to the level of their incompetency.’ 😉 Toodles.

Majordennisbloodnok
Editor
6667 kWhs
Reply to  Toodles
4 months ago


There is a saying along the lines of ‘Promoted up the chain to the level of their incompetency.’ 😉 Toodles.

Specifically, that is the Peter Principle, @Toodles, and it has a great degree of truth to it. Someone good at their job will be promoted, calling on different skills. If they are good in that new position, another promotion is likely and so it will continue until they are given a job they’re not good at. At that point, they won’t get another promotion, thereby adding another incompetent manager to the hierarchy and leaving them there.
 

alecsej
87 kWhs
4 months ago

I’ll be waiting for your update Mike. I live in Italy and I will get the visit from Aira on the 21st of August let’s see what kind of quotation they will send me after the survey. Did they tell you if they are going to install their machine or the Valliant one?

MikeH
536 kWhs
Reply to  alecsej
4 months ago

@alecsej They are installing their own Aira machine. I questioned why they had the odd Valliant image on their website as it was a little confusing. They said they used to fit more Valliant units, they still fit them but now only if a customer specifically requests one. 

alecsej
87 kWhs
4 months ago

Hi Mars, once received the visit and once received the quotation I will surely update you.
 
Air to water systems are surely kinda popular in Italy right now , however I’ve got to highlight that after a big growth depending on a, too big, state bonus now w will see a decrease in number of installations. Anyway new homes always have air to water heat pumps installed and if a renovation is planned in fifty percent of the cases a heat pump will be planned to subsistute the existing methane system.

alecsej
87 kWhs
4 months ago

Thanks Mike. As I said they are my biggest hope cause of the dimensions of the internal unit. What kind of internal unit are they going to install the 100 liters or 250?

MikeH
536 kWhs
Reply to  alecsej
4 months ago

@alecsej it’s the 250 litre cylinder with the 40 litre buffer. I’ll upload some photos next week all being well.

MikeH
536 kWhs
4 months ago

Update from install day 1. The Aira team arrived promptly at 8am with 2 heating engineers, an electrician and the delivery truck full of all the hardware. All were in nice yellow Aira vans and branded uniforms. They unloaded as quickly as they could after we moved a few cars around on our tight Victorian street. I took the morning off just to make sure I could answer any questions we both may have. I think this was really useful and might be a good recommendation they could make to future customers. The team have been very friendly and professional. At the end of day one, some of the team headed off at 4 but one stayed until 7pm working and tidying up. They have hung 5 of the 6 Radiators but 2 are not quite fulling connected yet. 1 radiator required sections of carpet and floorboards to be lifted and have been replace neatly. Other radiator have tricky pipes coming through existing floor tiles, so external pipes were needed to extend the pipe to the new width of the radiators. The Heating circuit of the boiler has been disconnected which is fine as it nice and warm and we still have hot water from the boiler. The Electrician has fitted a new dedicated consumer unit for the heat pump in the cellar and has spent the day chasing cables and conduit from the cellar, out along my outside wall on my neighbours side. He will be ready to drill through into the utility room at other end of the house, where the cylinder will be located tomorrow. The team were back at the house 8am this morning before I set off for work, I will give you a progress report from the end of day 2 soon.           

MikeH
536 kWhs
4 months ago

Update from end of install day 2. Lots of holes drilled today. large pipework holes drilled through the outside wall and through the internal wall of the downstairs toilet that the pipe will run through on the way to the utility room/cylinder location. Electrician has drilled trough to finish getting cables into the utility room to complete his cable run. Looking neat and tidy down the side of the building. He even tidied up existing conduit that was inferior to his, so they all run parallel. A concrete base has been laid and a grey slate soakaway created to match the colour of the heat pump, which is a nice touch. The concrete is touch dry so may be ready to sit the heat pump on by the morning.  A fair amount of primary pipework has been completed around where the cylinder will be located. Progress looks great and I wouldn’t be surprised if both heat pump and cylinder are in place and piped together by end of day 3 tomorrow. The electrician is due back on Thursday (Day 4) so we wont be firing it all up before then.    

alecsej
87 kWhs
4 months ago

Thanks for the updates MikeH. If the Italian services works like the UK service I might bet on Aira. Let’s see what the quotation is going to be, still a couple of weeks away.

MikeH
536 kWhs
4 months ago

 

20240807 144832

Update from end of install day 3. The heat pump and cylinder are now in position and piped together through the wall and through my downstairs toilet. The buffer tank, pump and expansion vessel are in place. The buffer tank pipework isn’t yet completed and the last radiator needs pipes running to it. They expect to start commissioning the system tomorrow by lunch time depending on how the electrician get on wiring up both internal and external units. I was wasn’t expecting the cylinder to be placed sideways but space would not allow for it to face outwards. They needed to take the internal door off just to get it in and work on it. The cylinder has no display so it’s not a big deal and I’ve been assured all parts that would be serviceable are in the top section and are accessible. Really happy with how the external heat pump is looking now it’s in place.

20240807 173153

 

MikeH
536 kWhs
4 months ago

Update from end of install day 4. The boiler has been removed from the loft and the heat pump is working. After a little head scratching, we managed to paired my phone/app and the wi-fi to the heat pump and set up what few setting are in the app to play with. They make a lot of their intelligent software that’s supposed to make the system hassle free. I guess this is great for regular users who just want the heating to work with little fuss. But not the best for a geek, as you can’t control the time the heat pump generates hot water and you can’t see the SCOP anywhere I can see. Hopefully they can release an advance mode that can give you more data and more control in time.
The big issue that I have only been made aware of today is that Aira haven’t provided the wireless thermostat for the house. The engineer can’t provide a timeframe for when we will get this, as they haven’t started manufacturing them yet! I can’t quite believe they haven’t mentioned this until now. It was late in the day and we only had time to ensure hot water was working correctly. One engineer is coming back to lag the pipes and clean up tomorrow but I am not sure if they can force the system to provide heat to the house to test the radiators. But I really want them to make sure the heating properly works and the radiators are correctly balanced before I sign the job off tomorrow. The engineer says the outside temperature sensor will call for heat when it drops cold outside but this is not the level of control we need. I know we don’t need heating for another month but I’d liked to have known this was not going to be provided and an ETA for this part, before I had agreed an install.        

Toodles
9583 kWhs
Reply to  MikeH
4 months ago

@MikeH That is a great shame – especially after everything was going so well. It does sound as though Aira would like to say ‘Leave it all to us, we know best’ A bit of a bummer if that is their attitude though. 😧 Toodles.

HCas
684 kWhs
Reply to  MikeH
4 months ago

@MikeH Don’t sign off until everything is done correctly!

alecsej
87 kWhs
Reply to  HCas
4 months ago

@HCas I do agree, such a pity that they slipped on such a silly thing. I do not like when the sales spirit, I’m a sales trainer myself, overrides the service quality first approach. Anyhow the first question I’m going to ask on the 21st will be about the thermostat.

IvanOpinion
798 kWhs
Reply to  MikeH
4 months ago

@MikeH Thanks for the latest update, which is helpful as my finger is hovering over the button to accept an Aira quote. 
Can I ask, is there a way for you, the customer, to optimise the weather compensation settings?
If I understand right, if they have designed your system with a flow temp of (say) 45C, it will be capable of producing this temperature when the outside temperature is at design temperature: say -2C. But if the outside temp is, say, 7C, the heat loss will be lower, so the ASHP will be programmed to produce a lower flow temp: say, 40C. And so on for other outdoor temperatures.
However, this is all based on educated guesses about the actual heat loss and how it varies with outdoor temps. So, if the programmed flow temps turn out to be hotter than needed to compensate for the actual heat loss, the ASHP will cycle on and off, which is less efficient than operating continuously at exactly the right flow temp to balance the heat loss. So, ideally, the programmed flow temps should be tweaked based on actual experience, to optimise efficiency.  
Is there a way for the customer to make these adjustments? I’m guessing not. Or does Aira’s system do this itself?

MikeH
536 kWhs
Reply to  IvanOpinion
4 months ago

@IvanOpinion They do not give an option to adjust the weather compensation yourself. There is no way of seeing flow temperature data, energy data or SCOP right now. I spoke to a guy at the Aira stand at Everything Electric Harrogate, they say they monitor the performance of the heat pump for you and have access to lots of data back end. It will modulate the flow temperature depending on the current outside temperate, they also say they use weather forecasts to adjust the system in advance. They can adjust weather compensation in the background if needed. The only datapoint I will currently have to work on, is from my smart meter half hourly energy usage. It will be hard to tell if the heat pump is cycling too much right now. I’ll post some screen shots from the app. I think this hands off approach will suit a lot of people though who just want a cosy house.

Screenshot 20240809 121825 Aira

Screenshot 20240809 121833 Aira

Screenshot 20240809 121857 Aira

Screenshot 20240809 121914 Aira

Screenshot 20240809 121906 Aira

Screenshot 20240809 121921 Aira

Screenshot 20240809 121956 Aira
IvanOpinion
798 kWhs
Reply to  MikeH
4 months ago

I think this hands off approach will suit a lot of people though who just want a cosy house.
I imagine you are right. If my parents got a ASHP, for instance, they would just want the simplest operation. I’m trying to tell myself that even though this means Aira will operate sub-optimally, it is probably only going to cost an extra £100 or so of electric, so not worth paying thousands more for an optimal system. But I think it will continually niggle with me.
 

Toodles
9583 kWhs
Reply to  IvanOpinion
4 months ago

@IvanOpinion It niffs of ‘Granny knows best’ I think.😧 With Homely, I am able to see what and when; this does provide food for the inquisitive mind.   Regards, Toodles.

MikeH
536 kWhs
3 months ago

Update from the final (ish) day. The lagging has all been completed and the large trunking has been closed up. The heat pump’s feet were levelled and all areas of work have been hooved up and cleaned down. There is some rubbish left in the front garden but there is a waste collection due on today. A few areas needed a bit of a further clean down after they left and one of the carpets needed further attention and needed pushing into the grippers more. But over all, they left the job looking clean and tidy. The big issue is that we still have no further update on the lack of thermostat. I wasn’t at home at the end friday when they left, but I told my wife to not sign anything or if they insisted, to note only hot water completed. But they didn’t ask for any signature. I emailed Friday while they were still on site, but didn’t hear back. I will be calling today to get an update.
The heating did come, on Saturday morning when we really didn’t need it but luckily it didn’t stay on long as we have no way of stopping it! I’m guessing but I think it must have dropped to maybe 13 degrees outside and triggered it to come on until it warmed up outside. It showed that the radiators still need work, as two did not warm up at all. Which is not a surprise with no radiator balancing taking place, with 6 new radiators and the new heat pump down stairs rather than boiler in loft.
On the upside, I’m impressed so far with sound levels and the amount of hot water achieved. We had guest staying all weekend and it never ran short of hot water with 4 adults and 2 kids showing. I’ll keep in touch with how the call back goes.

HCas
684 kWhs
Reply to  MikeH
3 months ago

@MikeH Interesting comment about radiator balancing. When would that take place?

Toodles
9583 kWhs
Reply to  HCas
3 months ago

@HCas I’m not mikeh of course but I did write an article on the subject:

Of course, the installers should be carrying out this work upon completing the installation as part of the commissioning. Mine was unfortunately carried out on a very mild day in February and as I knew they were itching to go home after a gruelling 3 weeks of installation work(!) [don’t ask] and the day had been a very long one, I suggested they do a cursory check that all radiators were heating up at a reasonable rate and leave the balancing to me to do later. Regards, Toodles.

Johnmo
2252 kWhs
3 months ago


lack of thermostat.

Really wouldn’t fret too much, the thermostat on a heat pump should only be treated as a house over heat cutout, so set a degree or two above target temperature. Normal day to day running, the thermostat should not even come into play. Your WC curve taking care of the heating itself. It should also auto sense how much heat is needed by the return temperature and dT and modulate output or even stop based on that. Basics are more heat being extracted from radiators, the more the return temp drops, so more energy added by heat pump to compensate. Opposite true for less work being done.

Toodles
9583 kWhs
Reply to  Johnmo
3 months ago

@Johnmo Surely there is some means of ‘programming’ your preferences for a heating schedule – or is this all built into the non-existent thermostat? Toodles.

Johnmo
2252 kWhs
Reply to  Toodles
3 months ago


@Johnmo Surely there is some means of ‘programming’ your preferences for a heating schedule – or is this all built into the non-existent thermostat? Toodles.

Not much of a fan of programming time schedules for heat pumps (unless doing batch charge heating a floor), just leave to heat based on WC, set back a little if you must – but mostly a comfort thing rather than energy saving in reality.
Mine is effectively either cooling or heating mode and nothing in-between. Currently switched between the two modes by a thermostat, but thinking of replacing that with a hard wired switch.
 

Toodles
9583 kWhs
Reply to  Johnmo
3 months ago

@Johnmo I would have thought you would have the ability to set your preference for temperature – even if you don’t need a schedule if you are running the heating 24/7/365? Inquisitively, Toodles.

Johnmo
2252 kWhs
Reply to  Toodles
3 months ago


@Johnmo I would have thought you would have the ability to set your preference for temperature – even if you don’t need a schedule if you are running the heating 24/7/365? Inquisitively, Toodles.

Temp change is by tweaking the WC curve up or down.
Just been modifying that, curve for cooling it moves between 14.5 and 15.5 degree, between 20 and 30 degs OAT, so just about flat. For heating between 10 and -9 OAT goes between 26 and 29 Deg flow temperature. Both curves are to ensure an almost steady 21 degs inside. Underfloor heating – not radiators. May need to shift the curve to compensate for defrosts, will see.
 
 

MikeH
536 kWhs
3 months ago

Yeah the problem is that they couldn’t even do a cursory check because they couldn’t force the system to heat up. I feel a bit better knowing that they weren’t feeding me a BS line about the system automatically kicking in when the outside temperature drops. At least I know now that the the system will heat up now. my assumption is that they will have to come back to sync the new thermostat when ever that is ready and at that point they will balance the rads. Just need to get that confirmed now. 

Derek M
15282 kWhs
Reply to  MikeH
3 months ago

Yeah the problem is that they couldn’t even do a cursory check because they couldn’t force the system to heat up. I feel a bit better knowing that they weren’t feeding me a BS line about the system automatically kicking in when the outside temperature drops. At least I know now that the the system will heat up now. my assumption is that they will have to come back to sync the new thermostat when ever that is ready and at that point they will balance the rads. Just need to get that confirmed now. 

Is the missing device a thermostat or a temperature sensor?

 

MikeH
536 kWhs
Reply to  Derek M
3 months ago

the missing device is a wireless thermostat. There is no internal temperature sensor that I am aware of. No internal temperature shows in the app. That section is greyed out so I am unable to set a proffered temperature and no one asked about my preferences. The external temperature shows in the app. That must be in the external part of the heat pump as it hit 41 degrees in the sun yesterdays.

Derek M
15282 kWhs
Reply to  MikeH
3 months ago

The fact that the app is greyed out could be because the controller is not receiving data from the missing item. The Outside Air Temperature (OAT) sensor should be showing the actual air temperature and not being heated by direct sunlight. This does not appear to be the case.

Do you have any manuals for the equipment?

 

Toodles
9583 kWhs
Reply to  Derek M
3 months ago

Guidelines for external temperature sensors usually suggest they are mounted on a northerly wall and in the shade – if attached to the heat pump (as mine is) it is placed at the back in the air flow and in shade but spaced away from the body of the pump itself. Regards, Toodles.

MikeH
536 kWhs
Reply to  Toodles
3 months ago

@Toodles No manuals or any paperwork of any kind were left behind. I will have a look again tonight to see if they placed a OAT sensor in a shady spot that I may have missed, maybe at the back of the heat pump. The Heat Pump sits South West facing and gets a lot of sun. 
I have just spoken to Aira. They are going to schedule a visit in 3 weeks as I’m about to go on holiday. They say the engineers should have been able to force the unit to heat so they are not sure why this wasn’t done to test the rads. They hope that the thermostats will be available at the time to bring with them in 3 weeks. They said that they do not supply the thermostats in other regions and that it is being produced for the UK marked. 

Johnmo
2252 kWhs
3 months ago


Heat Pump sits South West facing and gets a lot of sun. 

If the oat sensor is getting affected by sun light that may be why they couldn’t get it to start up when they tried – reading way to high. This WILL be an issue during the heating season and you should snag it as an issue. If the sun is affecting the oat reading this will move your weather compensation curve and not get the correct flow temperature when you need it.

MikeH
536 kWhs
3 months ago

There is no separate sensor outside that I can see but I think there is a temperature sensor built into the body at the back of the heat pump. See picture from the back on the right side of the heat pump. This is similar location to what is shown in the diagram I found on an online Aira installers manual. If this is the OAT Sensor then it will be catching direct sunlight when the sun is high in the sky. May not catch the sun when it rises lower in the winter though. 
 

Johnmo
2252 kWhs
3 months ago

I would put some trellis on the corner where the hose pipe is and grow something up it to stop the sun getting your temperature probe.

Toodles
9583 kWhs
Reply to  Johnmo
3 months ago

@Johnmo That’s the badger!, I wonder whether it can be relocated on the left side or if not, an external sensor might be fitted to the wall just round the corner near the existing trellis? The other possibility I can think of is placing it on the back face? This would have the advantage of when it is running, it will always be reading the temperature of the air flowing into the unit. Regards, Toodles.

MikeH
536 kWhs
Reply to  Johnmo
3 months ago

@Johnmo I guess it’s a balancing act between the possibility of restricting air flow vs the benefits of shading the sensor. Maybe I’ll test putting some sort of 3 inch lip on the back and right side of the unit and see if it reduces the displayed temperature in the app.

IvanOpinion
798 kWhs
3 months ago

I’ve found the actual tariff rates, hidden in the small print explaining how they calculate the savings they claim:
“In the calculation for Aira Zero, energy costs are compared between a boiler and a home equipped with an Aira Heat Pump under the Aira Zero tariff. It factors in a yearly electricity consumption of 3,375 kWh for the heat pump priced at a blended average rate of 17.43 p/kWh which is the average from 40% base rate at 22.65 p/kWh, 52% dip rate at 11.10 p/kWh, 8% peak rate at 32.84 p/kWh. And 3,000 kWh for your appliances at 17.19p/kWh which is the average from 38% base rate at 22.65 p/kWh, 54% dip rate at 11.10 p/kWh, 8% peak rate at 32.84 p/kWh.​"
I think those probably are the Cosy rates, though no doubt they are using the cheapest region, so a bit lower than Cosy in my region.
So, they reckon only 8% of the heating would be in the 3 hours of peak rate. That seems fairly conservative, given that 3 hours is 12.5% of a day. I would have thought the ASHP need not be heating at all for 3 hours.
And they reckon 52% of heating in the 8 hours of dip pricing, which is 33% of the day, so this is primarily where they are getting the optimisation, by cranking up the ASHP for these 8 hours. I wonder how much the house temperature would fluctuate as a result? If it was, say, 23C at the end of these boost periods, that would be too warm for me.
And how much would the SCOP be impacted by running the ASHP at higher power in those 8 hours than if it were running steady for, say, 21 hours, which is what I’d do with Agile?

Toodles
9583 kWhs
Reply to  IvanOpinion
3 months ago

@IvanOpinion To me this all goes to demonstrate that both Cosy and Agile are even more useful when battery storage is available. As you say, using the cheapest hours to boost temperature is not the best way to run a heat pump – for economy or best COP. On another note, looking at the daily average price during the cheapest periods for Agile, I think the overall average rate is still some pence above the cheapest fixed rate for Cosy – but I shouldn’t cross post! Regards, Toodles.

alecsej
87 kWhs
3 months ago

Thanks again to everyone for their comments, and especially to @MikeH for his detailed feedback on the Aira experience. His comments and those of the community are always very useful.
Yesterday I received a visit from the Aira consultant and I have decided to give the green light for the heat pump installation. They will give me the 6KW outdoor unit and the 250 litre indoor unit. The installation date is 9 September. In my case, the heat pump will be used for hot water and radiant heating in a 105 square metre house in Bussolengo, a small town near Lake Garda. The final cost, in ten years and after government subsidies, will be 6k (€). The first price they offered was exorbitant, but the second offer, to promote the launch of Aira in my region, was much more reasonable and so I accepted it. For me, this is an investment and the 15-year guarantee was too attractive to choose another brand, even though I know there are many more trustworthy ones out there, but if something happens after the first two years, I’m on my own and that would be a big loss for the tokens I’m putting into this game. Fingers crossed, I’ll update you on the installation as soon as possible.

trungdong
199 kWhs
3 months ago

I have the Aira 8KW unit (with a 250L indoor unit and 40L buffer) commissioned today. Aira still needs to come back to finish a few minor issues, but the heating and hot water seem to work OK so far. If you have any questions about the system, I’ll try to answer them.

MikeH
536 kWhs
3 months ago

Update on my Aira Heat pump. We are still waiting for a date for an installer to come back in fit the missing thermostat. We have been told by Aira that they at least have the thermostats in stock in the UK now. They should be scheduling an new engineer visit next week. Unofficially I know they have been training the engineers how to fit them this week.
The heating has been coming on this week when it dropped cold outside. Without the indoor thermostat, the heating will come on whenever it drops below 15 degrees outside, which so far has resulted in a 24’c hot house. Even though a few radiators do not come on at all, probably due to no balancing taking place yet. TRV’s lowered to get the temperature down in the house. The system has used a fair amount of energy but I don’t know how much is too much and I have no idea what the COP is because there in no info in the app :(. I measured the flow temperature on the hottest radiator which was 52’C. I’d not run the boiler that high at this time of year, even before the larger radiators were fitted. I assume the weather compensation needs adjusting but that is not something that is adjustable on the app. I will wait until the thermostat is fitted then raise these issues with Aira if the flow temp remains high. 
We went away for 2 weeks the week after the install was completed and set the heat pump to away mode on the app. Unfortunately the heat pump continued merrily heating the water every day and wasting money. I noticed the high energy usage via my octopus energy app, so I contacted Aira while I was away to see if they could push some sort of shut down request to the heat pump, but they were unable to connect to the heat pump. It turns out that they were unable to connect to the heat pump because 3 days after leaving home the RCD on my consumer unit tripped, so no power to the WIFI. Return home to a fridge and freezer full of rotten food. 3 electrician fault finding visits later, there was a break in the electric cable on the ring circuit to the the dining room and utility room(new cylinder location). Now resolved by separating the ring circuit into two separate circuits. Now there is no proof that Aira have drilled into a cable in the wall in the utility room. The electrician could not trace a live screwhead, but it’s a fairly big coincidence!

Toodles
9583 kWhs
Reply to  MikeH
3 months ago

@MikeH Oh Dear! This install is not going very well for you is it?😒 I do hope the tripped RCD can be shown to be due to their work too. As an advert for a new product, things haven’t gone well have they? Regards, Toodles.

Toodles
9583 kWhs
3 months ago

@trungdong It rather sounds as though the product was launched before units were available and the fitters had had the appropriate training on Aira specific parts. I suspect that ‘Sales’ were just too eager to promote a product not yet ready for installation nationwide. Toodles.

IvanOpinion
798 kWhs
3 months ago

Yes, Vaillant. But Aira were willing to give me that if I paid an extra £1k, which would still have been cheaper than HG.
To be fair, a chunk of the price difference came from HG being the only firm that proposed a pipe route that is way, way neater than any other. They got a builder in to remove some tiles on a mini-roof, to route the pipes through the roof void. There’s only a few metres of visible piping.

HCas
684 kWhs
Reply to  IvanOpinion
2 months ago

@IvanOpinion Did they install the wifi gateway? How are you controlling the unit?

trungdong
199 kWhs
Reply to  HCas
2 months ago

@HCas There’s no WiFi gateway with my installation. The 250L indoor unit has 4 antennas attached to the top; I guess those are for the WiFi. On setting up, the app on my phone connected to the indoor unit via Bluetooth and I selected the WiFi network for it to use. I believe you can connect and control the indoor unit directly via Bluetooth if the WiFi is down.
On another note, I found that the Bluetooth connection between the thermostat and my indoor unit is not reliable. The indoor unit is at the back of the house upstairs. I wanted to put the thermostat in the hallway downstairs at the front. However, this didn’t work as the thermostat could not connect. The distance between them was about 8m. I had to move the thermostat into a different room, closer, about 4m away, still downstairs, for it to work.

MikeH
536 kWhs
Reply to  trungdong
2 months ago

@trungdong Same, we had to compromise slightly on the location of the thermostat as the Bluetooth signal would not reach the preferred location. The range is about 10 metres on the same level as the cylinder. The range may be better in houses with internal stud walls but it seems solid brick internal walls are a bit of a signal killer.

Toodles
9583 kWhs
Reply to  MikeH
2 months ago

@MikeH Our 1930’s semi has internal brickwork, almost everywhere except one short section of studding (more recent mod I suspect); we have MESH wifi and I have had to use five units plus the master to give us good coverage throughout the house and patio area. Regards, Toodles.

trungdong
199 kWhs
Reply to  MikeH
2 months ago

@MikeH The connectivity specs for Aira indoor units shows Thread 1.3. I was hoping they would use that for the thermostat but apparently not. (I have several Thread router devices around the house).
It also shows Gigabit RJ45. I was hoping to have it connected directly to my LAN. I asked the installing electrician, but he said the only data cable was for their components. I believe he ran a data cable from the indoor unit to the consumer unit to connect it to the Carlo Gavazzi ET340 electricity meter there (via Modbus).