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									Mitsubishi Advanced Auto Adaptation - Thermostats, Volumisers, Buffer Tanks, TRVs, Pumps, Piping, Valves, Radiators &amp; Controls				            </title>
            <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/thermostats-trvs-pumps-valves/mitsubishi-advanced-auto-adaptation-2/</link>
            <description>Questions and discussions about renewable heating and heat pumps</description>
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                        <title>RE: Mitsubishi Advanced Auto Adaptation</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/thermostats-trvs-pumps-valves/mitsubishi-advanced-auto-adaptation-2/paged/2/#post-44180</link>
                        <pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2025 16:33:45 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[I know this thread is quite old, but I have been searching for info on the Auto Adapt feature, and there is an outline explanation in this Mitsubishi video:]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know this thread is quite old, but I have been searching for info on the Auto Adapt feature, and there is an outline explanation in this Mitsubishi video:</p>
<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIsp1ckK14A">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIsp1ckK14A</a></p>
<p> </p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/thermostats-trvs-pumps-valves/">Thermostats, Volumisers, Buffer Tanks, TRVs, Pumps, Piping, Valves, Radiators &amp; Controls</category>                        <dc:creator>downfield</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Mitsubishi Advanced Auto Adaptation</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/thermostats-trvs-pumps-valves/mitsubishi-advanced-auto-adaptation-2/paged/2/#post-37971</link>
                        <pubDate>Tue, 26 Nov 2024 11:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[They are, and thank you for the detail of what you do. One of the many useful functions of this forum is that it provides a repository of different ways to tackling various setups.
I doubt ...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p></p>
<p>I hope these experiences are of some help.</p>
<p></p>
<p>They are, and thank you for the detail of what you do. One of the many useful functions of this forum is that it provides a repository of different ways to tackling various setups.</p>
<p>I doubt we will ever know exactly how AAA or Homely for example work, that would take complex reverse engineering way beyond what I am capable of let alone willing to do given these are commercial products, but I do think it is very valid to consider the general principles eg what are the factors that determine the actual room temperature, and then see what we can do to reduce costs while maintaining comfort, which at the end of the day is what most of us want.</p>
<p>On the question of recovery after a power cut (which we have a fair number of, rural location with overhead lines) - I have deliberately made my setup as resilient as possible. The mini PC that runs the show is set to reboot after a power cut, and then various scripts including dare I say it a residual Home Assistant installation auto-restart. The main failures I get at the moment are HA logging conking out with "Unknown error OverflowError('int too big to convert')" the cause of which I have not been able to find (I can track down the code that logs the error, but not what triggers the error), which I fix by having a HA automation detect the error, and when it occurs, it reboots HA.</p>
<p>The reason I still have HA (for those who know my general views on HA) is purely historical. It's been on my system from day one, installed as part of the initial installation, and although I have increasing moved away from it, it does still have some useful functions, and rather than re-invent the wheel, I have let HA carry on doing what it does perfectly well. </p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/thermostats-trvs-pumps-valves/">Thermostats, Volumisers, Buffer Tanks, TRVs, Pumps, Piping, Valves, Radiators &amp; Controls</category>                        <dc:creator>cathodeRay</dc:creator>
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                        <title>Mitsubishi Advanced Auto Adaptation</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/thermostats-trvs-pumps-valves/mitsubishi-advanced-auto-adaptation-2/paged/2/#post-37969</link>
                        <pubDate>Tue, 26 Nov 2024 11:40:03 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[New topic stemming from here.
@transparent I&#039;m sorry, I don&#039;t know. Others have said this on this forum in the past. I haven&#039;t noticed anything after a power cut, but I haven&#039;t checked.]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>New topic stemming from <a href="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/massive-electricity-cost/paged/18#post-37974" target="_blank" rel="noopener">here</a>.</p>
<p>@transparent I'm sorry, I don't know. Others have said this on this forum in the past. I haven't noticed anything after a power cut, but I haven't checked.</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/thermostats-trvs-pumps-valves/">Thermostats, Volumisers, Buffer Tanks, TRVs, Pumps, Piping, Valves, Radiators &amp; Controls</category>                        <dc:creator>Sliderule</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Mitsubishi Advanced Auto Adaptation</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/thermostats-trvs-pumps-valves/mitsubishi-advanced-auto-adaptation-2/#post-37963</link>
                        <pubDate>Tue, 26 Nov 2024 10:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[Please clarify.
Are you suggesting that a power-cut would lose the data which the AAA control system has &#039;learned&#039;?
If so, then DESNZ need notifying.They&#039;re proposing a Demand Side Respons...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p></p>
<p>Also AAA does not follow a preset curve like WC. Presumably the "learning" is something to do with the observed rate of change of Room Temperature, but that's just guesswork on my part. Others have said it takes days to settle down after a restart to the system.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Please clarify.</p>
<p>Are you suggesting that a power-cut would lose the data which the AAA control system has 'learned'?</p>
<p>If so, then DESNZ need notifying.<br />They're proposing a Demand Side Response mechanism, which compensates householders who allow their heat-pumps to be turned off by a DSR-Agent using remote control.</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/thermostats-trvs-pumps-valves/">Thermostats, Volumisers, Buffer Tanks, TRVs, Pumps, Piping, Valves, Radiators &amp; Controls</category>                        <dc:creator>Transparent</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Mitsubishi Advanced Auto Adaptation</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/thermostats-trvs-pumps-valves/mitsubishi-advanced-auto-adaptation-2/#post-37938</link>
                        <pubDate>Tue, 26 Nov 2024 08:02:45 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[@sliderule - thanks. I suspect even heat pump enthusiasts would welcome anything that reduces the tedium of tweaking and fine tuning weather compensation curves, an activity which has much i...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@sliderule - thanks. I suspect even heat pump enthusiasts would welcome anything that reduces the tedium of tweaking and fine tuning weather compensation curves, an activity which has much in common with watching the paint dry.</p>
<p>I do already have a basic auto-adaption setup, a python script that checks the difference, if any, between the actual room temp and desired room temp, and then, if there is a difference, it adjusts the flow temp by moving the ends of the weather compensation curve accordingly. Generally it does work eg if I run with an overnight setback, and the actual room temp drops by a few degrees, then the auto-adaption script adapts the weather compensation curve to achieve a post setback recovery boost, and removes it when the room temp is close to where it should be. The code isn't complex, it is a series of 'if this then do that' statements. I am now turning my thoughts to what other auto-adaptions I can include, hence my interest in what other auto-adaption systems do. The two obvious candidates are firstly the weather and secondly the buildings thermal characteristics.</p>
<p>The weather of course is unpredictable in the detail, and I know from other work that I have done that converting weather data (actual or forecast) into something a computer can use is far from easy. Take solar gain for example. It would need something like the predicted (or actual) number of hours of sunshine to be useful eg if predicted number of sun hours &gt; 5 then lower the weather comp curve a bit. Ditto for rain but wind is always harder to quantify eg how do you turn cyclonic then SW veering NW 5-6 decreasing 4 later into something a computer can use? Calibrating the building's thermal characteristics might not in fact be that hard, and probably only needs to be done once (unless you have the builders in). Most if not all of the key data is already available, energy delivered to the building, rate of change of indoor and outdoor temperature etc. Without even doing any sums, I know that my building is slow to heat up, but equally it is slow to cool down.  </p>
<p>That said, most of the time my weather compensation plus auto-adaption script works just fine, the building stays at a constant indoor air temp, unless I have an overnight setback, when there is an overnight dip, but of course that is meant to happen. What matters then is managing the recovery boost, which is done by my auto-adaption script. The times when my indoor air temp does fail to stay where it should are almost always in severe cold weather, and the failure isn't down to a failure of control, it is down to a failure in heat pump output (see the Bleak Midwinter thread for details). It may be that the system I already have is already 'good enough' and any further tweaking will move into the realm of diminishing returns.</p>
<p>I do realise that not everyone will want to do the sort of tweaking I do, but at least I have established it is do-able, for those who want to give it a try. I also realise I haven't solved the getting the weather curve/control logic right with minimal effort problem, I still had to tweak mine over weeks if not months to get it right, and I still find myself adjusting it by very small amounts every now and then!</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/thermostats-trvs-pumps-valves/">Thermostats, Volumisers, Buffer Tanks, TRVs, Pumps, Piping, Valves, Radiators &amp; Controls</category>                        <dc:creator>cathodeRay</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Mitsubishi Advanced Auto Adaptation</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/thermostats-trvs-pumps-valves/mitsubishi-advanced-auto-adaptation-2/#post-37929</link>
                        <pubDate>Mon, 25 Nov 2024 20:05:39 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[@cathoderay I am sure AAA measures the OAT as well as the Room Temperature, to adjust the Flow Temperature. In that way AAA differs from WC which does not take into account the Room Temperat...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@cathoderay I am sure AAA measures the OAT as well as the Room Temperature, to adjust the Flow Temperature. In that way AAA differs from WC which does not take into account the Room Temperature except on a stop/start basis. Also AAA does not follow a preset curve like WC. Presumably the "learning" is something to do with the observed rate of change of Room Temperature, but that's just guesswork on my part. Others have said it takes days to settle down after a restart to the system. The advantage of AAA is that no trial and error of the WC settings are needed for different weather conditions/seasons, which may have to change again if HP cycling occurs. That may not concern HP enthusiasts, but should be a big advantage for the general public.</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/thermostats-trvs-pumps-valves/">Thermostats, Volumisers, Buffer Tanks, TRVs, Pumps, Piping, Valves, Radiators &amp; Controls</category>                        <dc:creator>Sliderule</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Mitsubishi Advanced Auto Adaptation</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/thermostats-trvs-pumps-valves/mitsubishi-advanced-auto-adaptation-2/#post-37920</link>
                        <pubDate>Mon, 25 Nov 2024 18:33:52 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[In an attempt to clarify this - isn&#039;t AAA (Advanced Auto Adaption) an addition to more basic weather compensation. It still varies the flow rate based on OAT, but does it taking other factor...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In an attempt to clarify this - isn't AAA (Advanced Auto Adaption) an <em>addition</em> to more basic weather compensation. It still varies the flow rate based on OAT, but does it taking other factors into account as well; it isn't therefore a case of AAA <em>or</em> WC, rather of WC (basic) or WC + AAA? Or does it entirely ditch using the OAT in any part of its logic. Very happy for thread to be split as indicated. </p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/thermostats-trvs-pumps-valves/">Thermostats, Volumisers, Buffer Tanks, TRVs, Pumps, Piping, Valves, Radiators &amp; Controls</category>                        <dc:creator>cathodeRay</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Mitsubishi Advanced Auto Adaptation</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/thermostats-trvs-pumps-valves/mitsubishi-advanced-auto-adaptation-2/#post-37908</link>
                        <pubDate>Mon, 25 Nov 2024 17:53:13 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[@transparent Thank you, that may take me some time to do that. I suggested AAA as an easier way than WC to get reasonable running costs. Most people would need their installer to fit it but ...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@transparent Thank you, that may take me some time to do that. I suggested AAA as an easier way than WC to get reasonable running costs. Most people would need their installer to fit it but once fitted there should be nothing to do.</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/thermostats-trvs-pumps-valves/">Thermostats, Volumisers, Buffer Tanks, TRVs, Pumps, Piping, Valves, Radiators &amp; Controls</category>                        <dc:creator>Sliderule</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Mitsubishi Advanced Auto Adaptation</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/thermostats-trvs-pumps-valves/mitsubishi-advanced-auto-adaptation-2/#post-37905</link>
                        <pubDate>Mon, 25 Nov 2024 17:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[I absolutely agree with you regarding installers and Weather Compensation. Because of a house wiring problem where we couldn&#039;t connect the zone controls to the FTC, I tried out Advanced Auto...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I absolutely agree with you regarding installers and Weather Compensation. Because of a house wiring problem where we couldn't connect the zone controls to the FTC, I tried out Advanced Auto Adaptation using the small FTC panel (which has a built in thermostat) on a long lead into the living room, as it didn't t need any zone signals. It worked fine, so I bought and installed the Mitsubishi wireless thermostat and receiver. It pauses or shuts down the HP when we get a temperature rise eg heat from the sun. I don't know how it works only that it measures the inside and outside temperatures and is supposed to learn over some days the appropriate adjustment to the Flow Temperature according to the performance in the house. Out of instinct, I only program in 1C changes in target room temperature, to avoid too fast ramp-up. On other topics on this forum, people have discussed how it works but I don't think they reached a conclusion. Several people thought they could beat it's performance using WC. I am very happy with our performance and I have a personal aversion to HP cycling which I believe reduces efficiency, slows down heating and wears out the heat pump prematurely, and I have noticed much less cycling with AAA than WC, almost none in fact.</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/thermostats-trvs-pumps-valves/">Thermostats, Volumisers, Buffer Tanks, TRVs, Pumps, Piping, Valves, Radiators &amp; Controls</category>                        <dc:creator>Sliderule</dc:creator>
                        <guid isPermaLink="true">https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/thermostats-trvs-pumps-valves/mitsubishi-advanced-auto-adaptation-2/#post-37905</guid>
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                        <title>RE: Mitsubishi Advanced Auto Adaptation</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/thermostats-trvs-pumps-valves/mitsubishi-advanced-auto-adaptation-2/#post-37901</link>
                        <pubDate>Mon, 25 Nov 2024 17:24:25 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[This thread is heading in two different directions; and @editor  may wish to split out the information on Mitsubishi Advanced Auto Adaptation to a different/new topic.
@sliderule you are qu...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This thread is heading in two different directions; and @editor  may wish to split out the information on <strong>Mitsubishi Advanced Auto Adaptation</strong> to a different/new topic.</p>
<p>@sliderule you are quite right to post here about this, even tho' it's clearly unrelated to thermal losses in the DHW supply at @econonsense 's site.</p>
<p>When you next respond, could you please two steps back and start with an overview of what issue you think the AAA feature is intended to solve?<br />... then tell us why you're mentioning a <em>zone pump</em> - preferably with a diagram if Mitsubishi have one you can paste here</p>
<p>... and then describe that DIP switch in the Flow Temperature Control box (photo?)<br />what it's for<br />and why it needs moving.</p>
<p>Links to online references on Mitsubishi's own site would be even more welcome &#x1f917; </p>
<p>That will leave <span style="text-decoration: underline">this</span> topic to remain on-target to address the heat losses and excessive costs for @econonsense</p>
<p>Many thanks.</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/thermostats-trvs-pumps-valves/">Thermostats, Volumisers, Buffer Tanks, TRVs, Pumps, Piping, Valves, Radiators &amp; Controls</category>                        <dc:creator>Transparent</dc:creator>
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