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            <title>
									Setback savings - fact or fiction? - Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)				            </title>
            <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/setback-savings-fact-or-fiction/</link>
            <description>Questions and discussions about renewable heating and heat pumps</description>
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                        <title>RE: Setback savings - fact or fiction?</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/setback-savings-fact-or-fiction/paged/31/#post-60902</link>
                        <pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2026 18:52:16 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[@sheriff-fatman — thanks, that is a bit more affordable. I need to work out how to collect the data using python, which is presumably what HA does behind the scenes.]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[@sheriff-fatman — thanks, that is a bit more affordable. I need to work out how to collect the data using python, which is presumably what HA does behind the scenes.]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/">Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)</category>                        <dc:creator>cathodeRay</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Setback savings - fact or fiction?</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/setback-savings-fact-or-fiction/paged/30/#post-60889</link>
                        <pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2026 09:53:43 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[@cathoderay Cost via Amazon was £42 for the monitoring device and £26 for a Zigbee adapter, as I didn&#039;t already have this.  Having the digital display available on the meter has enabled me t...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[@cathoderay Cost via Amazon was £42 for the monitoring device and £26 for a Zigbee adapter, as I didn't already have this.  Having the digital display available on the meter has enabled me to verify the accuracy of the device, which has been spot on since it was set up.  My spreadsheet includes a 'virtual' cumulative meter reading from the device, by summing up the daily usage, and it is basically a 2 decimal place replica of the meter readings each day.]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/">Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)</category>                        <dc:creator>Sheriff Fatman</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Setback savings - fact or fiction?</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/setback-savings-fact-or-fiction/paged/30/#post-60888</link>
                        <pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2026 08:40:02 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[@sheriff-fatman — thanks, that is very useful, and sorry, I should have checked whether you had previously posted details. The use of AA batteries for power makes good sense as the one place...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@sheriff-fatman — thanks, that is very useful, and sorry, I should have checked whether you had previously posted details. The use of AA batteries for power makes good sense as the one place most people don't have a mains socket is by their meter(s). I do have an ancient HA installation, but don't actively use it, it is only still there as its underlying OS is what I use to run my python scripts. There may well be a python module/library that can directly read and collect data from the sensor, I will look into it. I note it isn't cheap, with the Zigbee gubbins it looks like getting on for £100. A modbus enabled kWh meter can be had for about half the price, and I already have everything in place to connect it, but I am nervous about changing the current manual read only one to a modbus enabled meter, for fear of electrocuting myself! </p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/">Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)</category>                        <dc:creator>cathodeRay</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Setback savings - fact or fiction?</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/setback-savings-fact-or-fiction/paged/30/#post-60881</link>
                        <pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2026 20:34:06 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[I posted the details of the Frient pulse counting device in an earlier post on the thread -&#039;ve attached a photo of it.  There&#039;s a magnetic clamp that sits over the LED of the meter, and it t...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[
<p>As a matter of interest, does your energy in smart metering use an optical pulse counter which counts the LED flashes on the main electricity meter? If so, could you say what you use, and given a basic idea of how it is setup to collect the data?</p>
<p><br /><br />I posted the details of the Frient pulse counting device in an earlier post on the thread - https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/postid/60807/<br /><br />I've attached a photo of it.  There's a magnetic clamp that sits over the LED of the meter, and it then connects to the white oval box above it that houses the 2 x AA batteries that power it.  The other models I've seen of similar devices all need a mains power source, so this is a big advantage of the Frient device for a cylinder cupboard in the bathroom where there are no mains sockets nearby.</p>
14693
<p><br /><br />It connects to Home Assistant, but requires a Zigbee interface to get it to talk to HA.  I then have two output graphs in HA, one which monitors the total daily usage, and another which provides the usage profile.  This aligns very closely to the CN105 dongle data in profile (it's the CN105 data that's used in the emoncms data, which looks to be slightly overstating power compared to the meter readings, by circa 2.2%).  I haven't reconfigured emoncms to use the meter reading data, so as to have a consistent data source, but doing so would uplift my CoP figures very slightly.</p>
<p>Output data within Home Assistant shown below.  The first is just the Frient sensor graphs.  The second shows the input power profile underneath the equivalent data from the CN105 dongle, which also shows output data (the coloured input lines reflect Heating and DHW usage).</p>
14691
14692
<p>&nbsp;</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/">Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)</category>                        <dc:creator>Sheriff Fatman</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Setback savings - fact or fiction?</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/setback-savings-fact-or-fiction/paged/30/#post-60876</link>
                        <pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2026 19:09:12 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[@sheriff-fatman — the FTC7 description is even more cryptic. But what is interesting is that in your system, the Ecodan input power is higher than the smart meter data, which will lead to an...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@sheriff-fatman — the FTC7 description is even more cryptic. But what is interesting is that in your system, the Ecodan input power is higher than the smart meter data, which will lead to an underestimate of COP (which is relevant to the claims of an unduly low COP by @ecoste on the other thread). On my system it is the other way round, I suspect because the Midea reported amps and volts are those used only by the compressor, leaving out the ancillaries. I deal with this by using a correction factor when calculating power/energy in, and the corrected figure is tolerably close to my manual heat pump kWh meter readings. Over 2025, the calculated value under-reported the metered value by 3.6%.</p>
<p>As a matter of interest, does your energy in smart metering use an optical pulse counter which counts the LED flashes on the main electricity meter? If so, could you say what you use, and given a basic idea of how it is setup to collect the data?</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/">Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)</category>                        <dc:creator>cathodeRay</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Setback savings - fact or fiction?</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/setback-savings-fact-or-fiction/paged/30/#post-60855</link>
                        <pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2026 14:07:54 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[@cathoderay The FTC5 is quite old tech and current installations will likely use the FTC7 controller.  The blurb for the FTC7, quoted below, simply states that it includes energy monitoring,...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@cathoderay The FTC5 is quite old tech and current installations will likely use the FTC7 controller.  The blurb for the FTC7, quoted below, simply states that it includes energy monitoring, but there is no detail given as to the extent of this.  However, it likely implies that there is no longer an option available as to the level of monitoring, as suggested for the FTC5.  Users simply get the default monitoring provided within the FTC7.</p>
<p><span>The Ecodan FTC7 controller is easy to navigate with its colour touch screen and one touch settings access. Smart Grid and PV integration ready with the additional built in quiet mode interface and step by step installation wizard and intelligent room temperature control as standard. It also includes energy monitoring, showing consumed and produced energy.</span></p>
<p><br />The description of EMP2 in your chart is intriguing, as it suggests there is a pulse meter type input measurement available for the FTC5.  However, I doubt that the FTC7 uses anything as accurate as this, as my own system has a 3rd party smart pulse meter attached to the installation and the Ecodan's input power recordings are completely independent of this and, as noted in my data analysis, can be routinely overstating the smart meter data by circa 12.5% in auto adaptive mode.</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/">Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)</category>                        <dc:creator>Sheriff Fatman</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Setback savings - fact or fiction?</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/setback-savings-fact-or-fiction/paged/30/#post-60842</link>
                        <pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2026 07:58:06 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve been trying to find a Mitsubishi source for this, without success. The closest I have got so far is this description of monitoring levels from Mitsubishi&#039;s MELCloud User Manual (page 10...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p></p>
<p>However, yes, as there is an absence of power monitoring inside i think this formula is how it is calculated</p>
<p></p>
<p>I've been trying to find a Mitsubishi source for this, without success. The closest I have got so far is this description of monitoring levels from Mitsubishi's <a href="http://www.mitsubishitech.co.uk/Data/Ecodan/Controls/PAC-WF010-E_Wi-Fi/MELCLOUD_OM.pdf" target="_blank" rel="noopener">MELCloud User Manual</a> (page 10):</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
14669
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>This implies that basic standard monitoring (EMP1) is less accurate than enhanced monitoring EMP2, but doesn't say by how much. It does however say that EMP1 only measures to the nearest kWh, which will introduce rounding errors. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Why on earth not just measure current drawn and voltage, assume a power factor, job done.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Indeed.</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/">Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)</category>                        <dc:creator>cathodeRay</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Setback savings - fact or fiction?</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/setback-savings-fact-or-fiction/paged/30/#post-60839</link>
                        <pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2026 20:32:09 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[Why on earth not just measure current drawn and voltage, assume a power factor, job done.  If Shelly can do this in a device that retails for gbp13 and has significant compute power, mitsubi...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[
<p></p>
<p>Perhaps others more knowledgeable about MELCloud's inner workings can confirm of refute this</p>
<p></p>
<p>Flow temperature will have a influencing factor too,</p>
<p>However, yes, as there is an absence of power monitoring inside i think this formula is how it is calculated</p>
<p></p>
<p>Why on earth not just measure current drawn and voltage, assume a power factor, job done.  If Shelly can do this in a device that retails for gbp13 and has significant compute power, mitsubishi can do it in a device costing several £1000</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/">Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)</category>                        <dc:creator>JamesPa</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Setback savings - fact or fiction?</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/setback-savings-fact-or-fiction/paged/30/#post-60837</link>
                        <pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2026 19:46:25 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[Flow temperature will have a influencing factor too,
However, yes, as there is an absence of power monitoring inside i think this formula is how it is calculated]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p></p>
<p>Perhaps others more knowledgeable about MELCloud's inner workings can confirm of refute this</p>
<p></p>
<p>Flow temperature will have a influencing factor too,</p>
<p>However, yes, as there is an absence of power monitoring inside i think this formula is how it is calculated</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/">Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)</category>                        <dc:creator>F1p</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Setback savings - fact or fiction?</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/setback-savings-fact-or-fiction/paged/30/#post-60814</link>
                        <pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2026 08:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[I now recollect that somewhere a while ago I read something that suggests that in the absence of add ons MELCloud estimates power in by multiplying the units maximum power draw by the curren...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I now recollect that somewhere a while ago I read something that suggests that in the absence of add ons MELCloud estimates power in by multiplying the units maximum power draw by the current compressor frequency expressed as a percentage of the compressor's maximum frequency eg if max power draw is 3kW and the compressor is currently running at 50% of max, then current power is 1kW, and if it stays like that for an hour then that is 1kWh. Perhaps others more knowledgeable about MELCloud's inner workings can confirm of refute this. It it is confirmed, then it seems to me that it is a very crude estimate of energy in, and will depend very much on things like sampling frequency when the unit is not in steady state.</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/">Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)</category>                        <dc:creator>cathodeRay</dc:creator>
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