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									Massive Electricity Cost for Running My Air Source Heat Pump - Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)				            </title>
            <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/massive-electricity-cost/</link>
            <description>Questions and discussions about renewable heating and heat pumps</description>
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                        <title>RE: Massive Electricity Cost for Running My Air Source Heat Pump</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/massive-electricity-cost/paged/18/#post-45629</link>
                        <pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2025 17:54:13 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[I agree @mark-h The Building Regs are now very readable...... although I do miss the sections of &#039;advisories&#039; and illustrations of acceptable practices which used to be present.
There&#039;s an ...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree @mark-h The Building Regs are now very readable...<br />... although I do miss the sections of 'advisories' and illustrations of acceptable practices which used to be present.</p>
<p>There's an additional problem when selecting external pipe insulation because it has to be UV resistant of course.</p>
<p>The range of sizes available for installers to choose from is therefore reduced,<br />and especially so if they wish to use larger bore insulation around valve bodies.</p>
<p><a href="https://www.pipelagging.com/armaflex-ht-solar-pipe-insulation-2m-outdoor-high-temperature-uv-resistant" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Pipe Lagging offer a selection of 'solar' pipe insulation online</a>, but it's expensive once you opt for sizes outside the common pipe diameters.</p>
<p>Another option is to swathe <a href="https://www.pipelagging.com/armaflex-solar-steam-high-temperature-pipe-insulation-tape-15m-x-50mm-x-3mm-ht-tape-lagging" target="_blank" rel="noopener">UV-resistant tape</a> around the odd-sized sections and bends.<br />But my own experience with this approach is that the adhesive on the tape isn't good enough to hold firm around tight corners.<br />It needs supplementing with contact-adhesive at the edges.</p>
11312
<p>There are also anti-UV paints which can be applied on top of existing insulation...<br />... provided it hasn't already been degraded of course!</p>
11313]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/">Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)</category>                        <dc:creator>Transparent</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Massive Electricity Cost for Running My Air Source Heat Pump</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/massive-electricity-cost/paged/18/#post-45627</link>
                        <pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2025 17:26:24 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[I know I&#039;m late to this but I thought it would be worth pointing out that insulation of pipe runs outside the thermal envelope of the house is a building control matter. The installers shoul...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know I'm late to this but I thought it would be worth pointing out that insulation of pipe runs outside the thermal envelope of the house is a building control matter. The installers should be responsible for complying with those regulations.</p>
<p>The relevant sections are 4.24 to 4.26 of approved document L: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1133079/Approved_Document_L__Conservation_of_fuel_and_power__Volume_1_Dwellings__2021_edition_incorporating_2023_amendments.pdf</p>
<p>It's worth noting that the insulation thicknesses described in that document are for very high quality insulation (i.e. very low thermal conductivity and low emissivity). The building regs defer to BS 5422 for lower performance insulation, and that can have a huge influence. See the attached two tables for low and high emissivity insulation, cribbed from a verv old copy of BS 5422.</p>
11310
11311
<p> If we take 22mm pipe as a reference. The really high quality insulation would require only 8mm thickness, but if it was high emissivity then that would increase to 11mm and if it then had high thermal conductivity typical of the sort of neoprene like insulation (~0.04 W/mK) then you'd need 23mm insulation to meet the regulations. That's a big jump from 8mm!</p>
<p>As an aside, the building regs are a great source in some areas like this. IMHO they're easy to read and a model of clarity.</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/">Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)</category>                        <dc:creator>mark-h</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Massive Electricity Cost for Running My Air Source Heat Pump</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/massive-electricity-cost/paged/18/#post-37977</link>
                        <pubDate>Tue, 26 Nov 2024 13:15:32 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[Absolutely!Child labour is well suited to the task of pipe insulation in confined spaces.
To seal where pipes enter the steel shed, I&#039;d be using offcuts of EPDM rubber roofing material.It&#039;s...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely!<br />Child labour is well suited to the task of pipe insulation in confined spaces.</p>
<p>To seal where pipes enter the steel shed, I'd be using offcuts of EPDM rubber roofing material.<br />It's excellent for shaping around joins, and easy to cut.</p>
9135
<p>You can glue it directly onto existing vertical surfaces.<br />So it's also a good choice to seal the top of your boxing.</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/">Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)</category>                        <dc:creator>Transparent</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Massive Electricity Cost for Running My Air Source Heat Pump</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/massive-electricity-cost/paged/18/#post-37975</link>
                        <pubDate>Tue, 26 Nov 2024 12:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[@transparent I couldn&#039;t agree more, my first idea when looking at it was to box it in. 
There isn&#039;t enough clearance between the pipes and wall to insulate it much better.
My sons arm was ...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@transparent I couldn't agree more, my first idea when looking at it was to box it in. </p>
<p>There isn't enough clearance between the pipes and wall to insulate it much better.</p>
<p>My sons arm was recently injured quite badly, but as soon as he is fit I will lob him up in the loft to check the pipe insulation in there. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it is just the rockwool!</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/">Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)</category>                        <dc:creator>Econonsense</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Massive Electricity Cost for Running My Air Source Heat Pump</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/massive-electricity-cost/paged/18/#post-37974</link>
                        <pubDate>Tue, 26 Nov 2024 12:39:41 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[If you&#039;re going to take a DIY route to fixing the pipe insulation, then you should be asking for a rebate from the installer.
To calculate this, first ask them how long it will take them to...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you're going to take a DIY route to fixing the pipe insulation, then you should be asking for a rebate from the installer.</p>
<p>To calculate this, first ask them how long it will take them to remove what's there and do it again properly.<br />Then use £45/hour per person and add in the cost of buying the insulation yourself.<br />That should provide you with a good starting point.</p>
<p>They'll be super busy and wanting to get on with their next job rather than fix yours.<br />So the option of repaying you in cash will be tempting for them.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>One possibility for you to consider is to make a rectangular box around those external pipes and seal them in...<br />... at least for the main vertical run.</p>
<p>There are PVC parts used by window-fitters and firms who clad facia boards, which could be fashioned into suitable boxing.</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/">Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)</category>                        <dc:creator>Transparent</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Massive Electricity Cost for Running My Air Source Heat Pump</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/massive-electricity-cost/paged/18/#post-37972</link>
                        <pubDate>Tue, 26 Nov 2024 12:13:43 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[@transparent Hi, I spend most of my time on international travel through work.
However, I have taken some time to check what you guys are saying and you&#039;re entirely correct.
See pics!
My ...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@transparent Hi, I spend most of my time on international travel through work.</p>
<p>However, I have taken some time to check what you guys are saying and you're entirely correct.</p>
<p>See pics!</p>
<p>My first avenue was simply to get it all corrected, however I see now I will have to find the time to do most of it myself if I want it done well.</p>
<p>If I posted pictures of the horrific work they did in my house I think you guys would turn up with pitch forks outside their office!</p>
9126
9127
<p> </p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/">Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)</category>                        <dc:creator>Econonsense</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Massive Electricity Cost for Running My Air Source Heat Pump</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/massive-electricity-cost/paged/18/#post-37970</link>
                        <pubDate>Tue, 26 Nov 2024 11:41:20 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[As for the steel shed, I would expect to see around 100mm thick insulation sheet for the roof,and around 75mm for the walls and door.
It must be draft-proof,which may require neoprene rubbe...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for the steel shed, I would expect to see around 100mm thick insulation sheet for the roof,<br />and around 75mm for the walls and door.</p>
<p>It must be draft-proof,<br />which may require neoprene rubber gaskets to be cut and glued around the pipe-exit holes.</p>
<p>I can provide further construction details if required.</p>
<p>The adhesive will be a 'contact' type such as <a href="https://www.screwfix.com/p/evo-stik-impact-adhesive-off-white-amber-250ml/38770" target="_blank" rel="noopener">this from Screwfix</a></p>
9125
<p>Pipe insulation is usually best undertaken as a DIY task...<br />... preferably by someone with OCD!</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/">Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)</category>                        <dc:creator>Transparent</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Massive Electricity Cost for Running My Air Source Heat Pump</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/massive-electricity-cost/paged/18/#post-37967</link>
                        <pubDate>Tue, 26 Nov 2024 11:36:16 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t think the insulation around those four external pipe runs is adequate.
Although I can&#039;t see how they arrange themselves to pass through a 100-125mm outer sleeve, the pipe clips have...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don't think the insulation around those four external pipe runs is adequate.</p>
<p>Although I can't see how they arrange themselves to pass through a 100-125mm outer sleeve, the pipe clips have already compromised the wall thickness before the flow even gets there.</p>
9122
<p>I also wonder if the installer has used Split-Insulation.<br />If so, then the split will be gaping open on the side which faces into the wall.</p>
<p>The approved method is to use adhesive to join the splits,<br />and for all bevel-cut ends around pipe elbows.</p>
<p>This then gets an outer layer of 'tape' to further cover the joins.</p>
9123
<p> </p>
<p>Armaflex and Kaiflex both manufacture UV-resistant external insulation.<br />It's usually sold as <a href="https://www.bes.co.uk/catalogsearch/result/index/?q=solar+pipe+insulation&amp;products.filter.0.field=customFields.facet_brand&amp;products.filter.0.value.0=Kaimann" target="_blank" rel="noopener">"solar insulation"</a> because it gets used on roof-mounted solar-thermal collectors.</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/">Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)</category>                        <dc:creator>Transparent</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Massive Electricity Cost for Running My Air Source Heat Pump</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/massive-electricity-cost/paged/17/#post-37966</link>
                        <pubDate>Tue, 26 Nov 2024 11:34:05 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[@cathoderay Hi cathoderay, I am always impressed by the abilities of people like yourself on this forum and I can see why you are interested in how AAA works. I can only give my rather unsci...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@cathoderay Hi cathoderay, I am always impressed by the abilities of people like yourself on this forum and I can see why you are interested in how AAA works. I can only give my rather unscientific observations. Although I am very happy with it, it's not perfect, partly because I have programmed target temperature changes into the HP, to take advantage of 3 periods totalling 8 hours of half price electricity and avoid 3 hours of 50% higher cost electricity, on the Octopus Cosy tariff. I raise and lower the target by 1C and have the HP switch off for the 3 expensive hours. This usually results in around 4 or more hours of HP pause at night and again in the morning. AAA recovers the room temperature adequately, but I saw some peaks of higher Flow Temperature than I thought necessary. So I limit these peaks to 40C or 45C by switching to Ecodan Quiet Mode 1 or 2 depending on the weather and go back to normal unlimited mode if temperatures are going below zero. But these adjustments are just me trying to get a higher efficiency, and are not necessary for comfort or reasonable economy.</p>
<p>Like your house, ours is slow to hear and cool, having all concrete floors. Our kitchen/living room is 15 metres long of South facing patio doors, so we get massive solar warming, and I have to turn down the AAA thermostat from say 20C to 18C as soon as the sun comes in - turning it down by less does not quickly stop the heating. Likewise, it's best to turn it back up before the sun goes down to reheat the floors. I hope these experiences are of some help.</p>
<p> </p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/">Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)</category>                        <dc:creator>Sliderule</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Massive Electricity Cost for Running My Air Source Heat Pump</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/massive-electricity-cost/paged/17/#post-37965</link>
                        <pubDate>Tue, 26 Nov 2024 10:52:16 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[@transparent Hi these are all very valid questions, the passage through the wall is inside a 100 or 125mm plastic pipe, each pipe insulated within it. Re the integrity of the insulation, I h...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@transparent Hi these are all very valid questions, the passage through the wall is inside a 100 or 125mm plastic pipe, each pipe insulated within it. Re the integrity of the insulation, I haven't checked.</p>
<p>Also regarding the loft insulation, I don't know, I haven't been up there since they did it as I have a severe back problem and emphysema which is why I qualified for the grant. My guess is they just buried everything.</p>
<p>I did take the precaution of running most the electrical cables along raised joists when I rewired this house. It is very old, still had black and red twin and earth cables most of which had been butchered at some point.</p>
<p>Even 10 degs of thermal loss wouldn't account for this though, on a good day its 45 degs, on a cold day its 25 at best. I am in a rural seafront location, open fields over 300 metres between me and sea. I suspect its simply to cold in the mornings for the WH to overcome it in the heating cycle which I think is 1.5 hours.</p>
<p> </p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/">Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)</category>                        <dc:creator>Econonsense</dc:creator>
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