This I think is the result of medical conditions and possibly to a certain extent, our *ages. Though speaking for myself alone, come the summer when we will probably have the global warming ‘Phew, what a Scorcher’ weather again, I will be quite comfortable as I don’t seem to have any problems. My wife finds it a bit on the warm side though, however, we have blinds on all windows; the ability to shut them on the sunny aspects of the house and change these later in the day as the big yellow thing swings round to the south and then west. We manage to keep the house cool enough with judicious use of some fans.😉

*As a youngster, I was happy with 19-20 degrees and when working in precision engineering, this was just as well as all measurements are supposed to be made at 20 deg. C. anyway. Regards, Toodles.

Craig 

Yes I do use Octopus Agile incoming and yes I do automate stuff with Home Assistant. I also have tried Agile outgoing although I’m just on their standard variable Outgoing at the moment.

I can’t comment on whether or not Cosy would be better or worse for us since we have a relatively small battery (6.5 kWh). The really cheap off peak rates for Cosy, Flux and Go tend to be at their most beneficial when you can store enough power to tide you over the relatively long peak price times whereas Agile only tends to have two relatively short peaks - the main one being 4pm-7pm. In addition, none of the other tariffs ever get negative pricing which, whilst rare, can and does happen with Agile.

Our usage patterns are all over the place so the regularity of the other ToU tariffs isn’t ideal for us and Agile combined with rules for exploiting time shifting, opportunistic pricing and saving sessions is a much better fit. However, in order to make Agile work for you, you really do need to get away from set scheduling or manual tinkering and that’s not for everyone.

As for Homely, Havenwise and the like, the main thing they can do over and above ensuring you’re running on weather compensation is to overheat your home at times of cheap energy and throttle back when leccy is expensive. In effect, it’s turning your home into a heat battery and that can certainly increase your savings a bit. However, the tradeoff is that you have to accept wider temperature swings and that’s something my wife and I don’t like.

Can I ask your take on the smart+ subscription? @toodles has given me a really good insight into the homely system but he's recommended to ask your advice on whether the subscription is worth doing and it maybe pays for itself?

You gave me some great advice a few weeks ago on another subject, you were a bit worried you'd waffled on😴, but your advice were spot on thank you and at a level I could understand clearly.👍

I'm past the point of trying to sort the efficiency manually so getting a homely installed seems a great idea after reading a lot of posts on this website, I've got the hub pack and the d-com units on it's way, I'm not an electrician but certainly capable of having a go at installing it all in a safe manner if pointed in the right direction, as I mentioned to Toodles the installation manuals not the clearest, I'd like to know how to power the d-com unit and can I buy the cabling at somewhere like Screwfix mainly but any advice on the the whole install is greatly appreciated. 

Thank you 

Regards 

Craig 

Sounds like my installation…

I found the manual for the Dixell controller only on a retailer website for MKM Building Supplies. 

https://checkout.mkm.com/content/products/pdf/24838/daikin-ukppc150r32-pre-plumbed-150l-r32-cylinder-l048211_Installation_1.pdf

This should have been easier to find from Daikin.

It’s essential that you check the set point on that controller as it controls when your secondary pump kicks in and I found the factory setting way too high at 37degC.

(press the set button)

The effect is that the heat pump starts up by only warming the buffer tank. With no heat being lost to the radiator circuit it overshoots its target flow temperature and shuts down. This happens repeatedly until the buffer tank reaches the set point temperature. Only then does the water start circulating through the radiators and the system have some chance of achieving a steady heat transfer to the house. 

I have mine set to 25degC so that I get water flowing in the radiators as soon as possible after the heat pump is starting up. This has effectively eliminated start up cycling.

(press and hold set and adjust with arrows when the display is blinking; press set again to save)

Also, the Madoka is not just a dumb thermostat. It supports modulation and allows you to get the best of the efficiency from LWT control whilst allowing some real world feedback. It can go slightly above or below the weather curve to account for temporary changes to the heat loss e.g. solar gain or someone leaves a door open for too long.

If it wasn’t for DHW and the occasional defrosting, this keeps my pump running permanently in winter and maintains a comfortable temperature.

I hope that helps.

Regards 

Craig 

My feelings are that Agile used to offer very good cheaper half hours but that in the last year or so, these ‘cheaper than chips’ periods have become fewer. I am very likely biased but when checking the rates, rarely see more than 1 or 2 periods in a day when the rate is lower than the Cosy 8 hours give me. Please refer this to @majordennisbloodnok for a sanity check as I might well be biased!

Now as to Homely and Smart+; it was provided as part of the purchase originally for the first year as a trial. I understand they no longer bundle that trial and it costs £25 annual subscription. From this page:

https://www.homelyenergy.com/how-adding-a-homely-to-a-heat-pump-can-deliver-savings-even-when-prices-are-rising/#:~:text=How%20much%20could%20I%20save,using%20Homely%20in%20Smart+%20mode

I now see that Agile is catered for in the Homely Smart+ element of the app.

I found that the Smart+ was a bit of a mixed blessing for though it enabled utilisation of the TOU tariffs, the way it worked did not suite my needs. As I have a battery charged during Cosy hours and am thus agnostic about when in the 24 hours, I need the heat pump to consume most energy, Homely did not need to ramp up my heating during the 8 hours to avoid the other more expensive hours. What I found was that Homely raised the temperature 2 or 3 degrees C above my desired comfort level in an attempt to use less energy during the higher rate hours of the tariff; this did not suit me, nor did I gain much as the battery could cope more effectively.

I am a fussy blighter in terms of comfort level, 22.5 degrees C +0.5 deg. but -0.0 deg. suits (both of us actually) so elevating this to 24 deg. C. or more was not of any use to us really. I also found (and of course, they may have changed this now) the Smart+ setting seemed to include an instruction to the Homely controller to see the highest temperature set in one’s programme over the following few days and regard this as the target temperature at all times regardless of what other lower temperature may have been programmed in!

I have been using the Smart mode for a year and more and am very satisfied with the way it works for my particular needs. Regards, Toodles.