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									High electricity use – 17kW Grant Aerona 3 - Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)				            </title>
            <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/high-electricity-use/</link>
            <description>Questions and discussions about renewable heating and heat pumps</description>
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                        <title>RE: High electricity use – 17kW Grant Aerona 3</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/high-electricity-use/paged/4/#post-42424</link>
                        <pubDate>Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:05:37 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[The upgrade to 3-phase was most likely initiated by your DNO.
It&#039;s possible that they did stipulate the need for this as a result of communications with your ASHP installer...... but that h...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p></p>
<p>I spoke with my electrician just now who told me that the original supply (when hp was installed) was single phase but was upgraded to 3phase just after. </p>
<p></p>
<p>The upgrade to 3-phase was most likely initiated by your DNO.</p>
<p>It's possible that they did stipulate the need for this as a result of communications with your ASHP installer...<br />... but that he didn't appreciate the significance, and thus proceeded with the work before the supply was upgraded to 3-phase.</p>
<p>That's why we need the correspondence which SPEN sent to your installer.<br />It should've been included in the documents given to you on completion of the HP work, but there's no problem asking for a copy anyway.</p>
<p>I don't believe Grant offer 3-phase heat pumps.<br />So if that's what your installer favours, then it's possible he was wary of switching to a different model outside of his comfort-zone.</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/">Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)</category>                        <dc:creator>Transparent</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: High electricity use – 17kW Grant Aerona 3</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/high-electricity-use/paged/3/#post-42421</link>
                        <pubDate>Sat, 15 Feb 2025 11:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[@transparent 
I’m looking for any paperwork related to the work involved. We had a rewire and a new supply connection just after the hp install. I spoke with my electrician just now who tol...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@transparent </p>
<p>I’m looking for any paperwork related to the work involved. We had a rewire and a new supply connection just after the hp install. <br />I spoke with my electrician just now who told me that the original supply (when hp was installed) was single phase but was upgraded to 3phase just after. <br />As I said, I was unwell during this whole period so have not much recollection of the work. <br />I’ve obviously been very lax with regard to all of this but 2024 was a terrible year for us, illness, death of a close family member, being sued by contractor and general daily life! <br />Sorry for any misinformation, I am only realising now what occurred and when. <br />Thanks again. </p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/">Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)</category>                        <dc:creator>JgtukPD</dc:creator>
                        <guid isPermaLink="true">https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/high-electricity-use/paged/3/#post-42421</guid>
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                        <title>RE: High electricity use – 17kW Grant Aerona 3</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/high-electricity-use/paged/3/#post-42420</link>
                        <pubDate>Sat, 15 Feb 2025 11:38:19 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[Can I suggest that you send an email to SP Energy Networks?
customercare@spenergynetworks.com
 
&quot;Attention Distribution Area Manager for Ruthin:
I have a 17kW ASHP installed at my addres...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can I suggest that you send an email to SP Energy Networks?</p>
<p>customercare@spenergynetworks.com</p>
<p> </p>
<p><span style="color: #800000"><em>"Attention Distribution Area Manager for Ruthin:</em></span></p>
<p><span style="color: #800000"><em>I have a 17kW ASHP installed at my address &lt;state it here&gt; on &lt;date&gt;</em></span></p>
<p><span style="color: #800000"><em>Despite the property having 3-phase available, the installer has fitted a single-phase unit.</em></span></p>
<p><span style="color: #800000"><em>Can you please say whether an LCT application was made for this work,</em></span><br /><span style="color: #800000"><em>and whether a 3-phase unit was recommended?</em></span></p>
<p><span style="color: #800000"><em>Are you able to supply me with a copy of your Consent for the heat pump to be installed?</em></span></p>
<p><span style="color: #800000"><em>Many thanks"</em></span></p>
<p> </p>
<p>DNOs are generally extremely helpful.</p>
<p>They will appreciate your concerns and respond promptly, giving you a case number and named contact.<br />This is likely to be the Network Planner for the engineering team which covers your area.</p>
<p>You can give them the URL of this Topic, and tell them that you are now following advice from experts within the Renewable Heating Hub membership.</p>
<p>It might help if you tell them that I have a Partnership Agreement with NGED, with access to their internal data.<br />Although I'm 'just' an ordinary member of the public, that means I am well-versed in matters such as phase-imbalance losses and demand surges. &#x1f642; </p>
<p>We want to encourage practices which are "grid friendly"!</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/">Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)</category>                        <dc:creator>Transparent</dc:creator>
                        <guid isPermaLink="true">https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/high-electricity-use/paged/3/#post-42420</guid>
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                        <title>RE: High electricity use – 17kW Grant Aerona 3</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/high-electricity-use/paged/3/#post-42417</link>
                        <pubDate>Sat, 15 Feb 2025 11:06:21 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[@transparent 
There&#039;s a lot here for me to take in and i don&#039;t fully understand some of it so I will have a good read through and take a look at all of the issues you highlighted before I d...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@transparent </p>
<p>There's a lot here for me to take in and i don't fully understand some of it so I will have a good read through and take a look at all of the issues you highlighted before I decide what action to take - as I said, I have a poor relationship with the installers so not quite sure where to go from here. </p>
<p>Many thanks again for your invaluable input. </p>
<p> </p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/">Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)</category>                        <dc:creator>JgtukPD</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: High electricity use – 17kW Grant Aerona 3</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/high-electricity-use/paged/3/#post-42416</link>
                        <pubDate>Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:45 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[@jgtukpd - There are a number of different issues in what I&#039;ve seen from your photos.
I&#039;m going to assume that what I write here will be shared with Grant and your Installer.This Topic is &#039;...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@jgtukpd - There are a number of different issues in what I've seen from your photos.</p>
<p>I'm going to assume that what I write here will be shared with Grant and your Installer.<br />This Topic is 'evidence' in the event that a dispute proceeds and perhaps results in you taking action under the <a href="https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/wales/about-us/information/the-consumer-rights-act-2015/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Consumer Rights Act</a> (2015).</p>
<p>Let's see if we can avoid that!</p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong>1: The structural integrity of your house wall is compromised.</strong></p>
<p>The material above the large hole is unsupported within the usual interpretation applied by a Building Control Surveyor.</p>
<p>I am a self-builder, with decades of experience across all 'trades'.<br /><em>(Today I intend plastering an internal wall and fitting coving between it and the ceiling).</em></p>
<p>Whilst we could waste time delving into the clauses of <a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/structure-approved-document-a" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Building Regulations Part-A</a> (Structure),<br />I should emphasise that almost all tasks in the construction trades come down to <span style="color: #993300"><strong>common sense</strong></span>!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>If a (large) hole is made in a wall through which pipes or cables are to be passed, then</p>
<ul>
<li>the wall above that hole needs supporting by material which can bear that weight (ie not the pipes or cables!)</li>
<li>the hole should slope slightly downwards towards the outside; thus any rain/moisture is directed out of the property</li>
<li>the external face of the hole should be finished with a weather-proof finish, no less impregnable than the surroundings (cement render in your case)</li>
</ul>
<p> </p>
<p>Sometimes I line a hole with an outer sleeve which is incompressible, such as a metal pipe.<br />Or I might take out sufficient brickwork or blocks to fit a cast lintel, which forms the top of the hole.</p>
<p>For a double-skin/cavity wall, whatever lines that hole must avoid allowing heat out, or rain in.</p>
<p>Does your wall have a cavity?</p>
<p>What is the wall made of?</p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong>2:</strong> We need to know the size of the pipes which pass through that wall, and their composition (copper, polythene?).</p>
<p>When dealing with the low temperatures available from a heat-pump, there is a finite amount of energy which can be transferred along the pipe!</p>
<p>There's no point insulting pipes which aren't of adequate size in the first place.</p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong>3:</strong> You need to consider what will happen when some aspect of your system fails.</p>
<p>The one we're facing today is the action which will occur if freezing conditions exist outside,<br />and the internal thermostats turn the heat-pump off because the house is 'up to temperature'.</p>
<p>Glycol is very often used as an additive,<br />but it has a lower thermal capacity than water.</p>
<p>The more glycol you add, the less heat can be transferred through your radiators.</p>
10427
<p> </p>
<p>I hope these issues are now becoming clearer.</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/">Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)</category>                        <dc:creator>Transparent</dc:creator>
                        <guid isPermaLink="true">https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/high-electricity-use/paged/3/#post-42416</guid>
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                        <title>RE: High electricity use – 17kW Grant Aerona 3</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/high-electricity-use/paged/3/#post-42412</link>
                        <pubDate>Sat, 15 Feb 2025 09:38:16 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[@transparent 
I will try to address these issues. 
In the event of the external pipe-run freezing, the anti-freeze valves will open and discard all the water onto the ground.Was this speci...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@transparent </p>
<p>I will try to address these issues. </p>
<p><strong>In the event of the external pipe-run freezing, the anti-freeze valves will open and discard all the water onto the ground.</strong><br /><br /><strong>Was this specified?</strong><br /><strong>Was the use of glycol discussed? <br /></strong></p>
<p>I have no knowledge of this so no, not discussed with me... </p>
<p>Thanks. </p>
<p> </p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/">Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)</category>                        <dc:creator>JgtukPD</dc:creator>
                        <guid isPermaLink="true">https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/high-electricity-use/paged/3/#post-42412</guid>
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                        <title>RE: High electricity use – 17kW Grant Aerona 3</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/high-electricity-use/paged/3/#post-42411</link>
                        <pubDate>Sat, 15 Feb 2025 09:26:57 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[Annotations added to your photos:

(external view on left)
 

external pipe run should be completely sealed against rain.
Should be in pipe diameter of at least 28mm.The 17kW ASHP has ...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Annotations added to your photos:</p>
10424
<p><em>(external view on left)</em></p>
<p> </p>
10425
<p>external pipe run should be <span style="text-decoration: underline">completely sealed</span> against rain.</p>
<p>Should be in pipe diameter of at least 28mm.<br />The 17kW ASHP has 1¼-inch BSP pipe entry ports.</p>
<p>UV-resistant (solar) insulation wall thickness should be 19mm.<br />It should continue right through the wall, rather than stopping where expanding foam has been sprayed in.</p>
<p>Support pipe using Munsen rings fitted outside of the insulation.</p>
10426
<p> </p>
<p>The end of the insulation nearest to the external ASHP unit should be sealed using an acrylic polymer mastic,<br />and then covered with 3mm thick Armaflex tape.</p>
<p>The present arrangement allows ingress of water between the pipe and insulation.<br />This extracts the heat and discards it onto the ground.  &#x1f632; </p>
<p> </p>
<p>In the event of the external pipe-run freezing, the anti-freeze valves will open and discard all the water onto the ground.</p>
<p>The external unit is protected from damage, but the house will be left without heating or hot water.</p>
<p>Was this specified?<br />Was the use of glycol discussed?</p>
<p>Frost protection settings are discussed on <a href="https://www.grantuk.com/media/5657/grant-aerona-r32-installer-uk-doc-0136-rev-2-4-february-2024.pdf" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Page-40 of the Installation Instructions</a>.</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/">Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)</category>                        <dc:creator>Transparent</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: High electricity use – 17kW Grant Aerona 3</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/high-electricity-use/paged/3/#post-42398</link>
                        <pubDate>Fri, 14 Feb 2025 18:03:10 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[@toodles sorry, I’ve edited the pictures to include what they are. Thanks.]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@toodles sorry, I’ve edited the pictures to include what they are. <br />Thanks. </p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/">Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)</category>                        <dc:creator>JgtukPD</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: High electricity use – 17kW Grant Aerona 3</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/high-electricity-use/paged/3/#post-42396</link>
                        <pubDate>Fri, 14 Feb 2025 17:52:38 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[@jgtukpd On my iPad, all I see is a duplication of some photos of the valves and insulation on external pipework. If this is the subject of your posting, then I think your pipework may well ...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[@jgtukpd On my iPad, all I see is a duplication of some photos of the valves and insulation on external pipework. If this is the subject of your posting, then I think your pipework may well be compromised by the very tightly fixed plastic straps and by the open mitred joints. I expect @transparent will be along soon to explain more. Regards, Toodles.]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/">Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)</category>                        <dc:creator>Toodles</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: High electricity use – 17kW Grant Aerona 3</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/high-electricity-use/paged/3/#post-42394</link>
                        <pubDate>Fri, 14 Feb 2025 17:26:55 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[pipework entering property]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[10421
<p>pipework entering property </p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/">Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)</category>                        <dc:creator>JgtukPD</dc:creator>
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