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									Renewable Heating Hub Forums - Recent Posts				            </title>
            <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/</link>
            <description>Questions and discussions about renewable heating and heat pumps</description>
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            <lastBuildDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2026 04:53:34 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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                        <title>RE: Starting Our Heat Pump Journey: 1962 build 3 bed detached house</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/starting-our-heat-pump-journey/paged/2/#post-66089</link>
                        <pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2026 22:12:03 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[@Ian-S, I think @JamesPa’s latest comments are probably the most useful way of looking at this.
His point that most of the problems we repeatedly see here come back to oversizing, unnecessa...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span>@Ian-S, I think @JamesPa’s latest comments are probably the most useful way of looking at this.</span></p>
<p><span>His point that most of the problems we repeatedly see here come back to oversizing, unnecessary buffers and poor controls is worth keeping in mind. You’re already nowhere near the territory of somebody being sold a 12kW or 16kW machine for a modest house, and if the proposed system is direct, sensibly controlled and properly commissioned, you’ve removed a lot of the obvious ways these things go wrong. </span></p>
<p><span>The 5kW versus 7kW question is interesting, though. Like James, I wouldn’t automatically choose the 7kW just because it’s another £5. If Heat Geek are confident enough to recommend the 5kW against a calculated 6.5kW heat loss, I’d want them to explain why. James also makes the useful point that Vaillant’s nominal capacities don’t necessarily tell the whole story, and that the real question is what the unit will actually deliver under your design conditions. </span></p>
<p><span>Your historic gas use makes that discussion even more interesting. You’ve been around 9-9.6MWh a year for three years, which at least gives you some real-world evidence to sense-check the calculated heat loss against. As James says, it doesn’t magically give you the answer, but it is useful context before deciding whether the 5kW really is enough.</span></p>
<p><span>On the 49C design flow temperature, I’m with James again. I’d prefer to see it lower if that can be achieved sensibly, but I wouldn’t get hung up on the number alone. If a few relatively inexpensive radiator upgrades pull it down towards 45C, that seems worth exploring. If you need to start replacing half the house to gain a tiny efficiency improvement, perhaps less so. </span></p>
<p><span>@AndrewJ also raises something I hadn’t really considered… what temperatures you actually want to live at over the next 10-15 years. If the heat loss calculation assumes bedrooms at 18C but you realistically want 21-22C, I’d ask Heat Geek to show you what happens to the design if you change those assumptions rather than simply buying the bigger heat pump for headroom.</span></p>
<p><span>So I think I’d now ask Heat Geek three fairly simple questions. Why they prefer the 5kW, what the design flow temperature becomes with each radiator option and whether the 6.5kW heat loss figure changes materially if you design around the temperatures you want.</span></p>
<p><span>From where you started with all the doubts, you actually seem to be getting pretty close to a sensible, explainable design rather than just being handed a quote and told to trust it. Well done.</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/"></category>                        <dc:creator>Mars</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Heat Pump Books For Beginners: The Ultimate Guide to Heat Pumps, Bodge Buster, From Zero To Heat Pump Hero &amp; Britain&#039;s Heat Pump Shitshow</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/bodge-buster/paged/6/#post-66088</link>
                        <pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2026 22:03:23 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[@jamespa, I think we agree on about 80% of this. Where we differ is the point at which sensible consumer education becomes the transfer of professional responsibility onto the customer.Homeo...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@jamespa, I think we agree on about 80% of this. Where we differ is the point at which sensible consumer education becomes the transfer of professional responsibility onto the customer.<br /><br />Homeowners absolutely should understand what they want. How warm should the house be? How many showers are likely to run consecutively? What space can be surrendered? What disruption and expenditure are acceptable? They should compare installers, ask questions, request references and understand the broad principles. That is exactly why RHH, the forums,  the books and the course exist.<br /><br />The car and computer comparison begins to break down, however, because those are largely standardised manufactured products. A buyer can compare the same model across reviews, specifications and thousands of other owners. A heat pump installation is usually a bespoke engineering and construction project assembled inside one peculiar house. Its most serious defects may be buried in heat loss assumptions, hydraulic design, emitter selection and commissioning. They are invisible when the quotation arrives and may not reveal themselves until the first cold winter snap, months after the installer has been paid.<br /><br />A car buyer should know whether they need seven seats and a large boot. We do not expect them to recalculate the braking speeds before trusting the manufacturer. Likewise, a homeowner should know their hot water requirements. They should not need enough engineering knowledge to decide whether an 8kW or 12kW heat loss calculation is credible when both arrive from certified professionals with identical reassurance.<br /><br />Crooks will always exist. That is not an argument for accepting weak protection… it is the reason protection exists. We do not tell victims of financial fraud that imperfect humans are inevitable and they should have studied banking law.<br /><br />I am not asking for perfection. I am asking for the professional heating system to heat the house, for the claims used to sell it to be defensible and for somebody identifiable to put it right when it does not. That is hardly a high horse. It is the product the customer paid for.<br /><br />You are also right that commercial pressure is weak. But consumers can only stop buying from poor installers if they can distinguish them from competent ones before signing. At present, the same certification logos can sit on excellent and dreadful work, while reviews frequently assess punctuality, tidiness, whether the side gate was closed and whether a dust sheet was used to cover the hallway rug. None of those establishes whether the system will perform in Jan or Feb.<br /><br />Public complaint outcomes, verified performance, meaningful installer histories and certification with actual consequences would create the commercial pressure currently missing. Good installers would finally be distinguishable from businesses that are simply good at selling and crap at installing. </p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/"></category>                        <dc:creator>Mars</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Starting Our Heat Pump Journey: 1962 build 3 bed detached house</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/starting-our-heat-pump-journey/paged/2/#post-66087</link>
                        <pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2026 21:21:55 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[@ian-s that would point to a 5kW heat pump being sufficient assuming you want the same temperatures across the house.  These ought to be considered 15 year lifetime devices and the only thin...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[@ian-s that would point to a 5kW heat pump being sufficient assuming you want the same temperatures across the house.  These ought to be considered 15 year lifetime devices and the only thing I would add is that as you get older, you definitely feel the cold more and may well find 23c is a more comfortable temp.  We are two adults in our 60s in our house and historically I’ve felt comfortable at 20c but no more - 22c/23c is definitely our desired temp.  The MCS “standard” temps designed to are mental for older people: my wife would have my jiggly bits if the bedroom could only reach 18c when it is -3c outside.  In other words, a 7kW unit might give you some headroom.]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/"></category>                        <dc:creator>AndrewJ</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Starting Our Heat Pump Journey: 1962 build 3 bed detached house</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/starting-our-heat-pump-journey/paged/2/#post-66086</link>
                        <pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2026 21:05:27 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[@jamespa many thanks for your thoughts, my gas usage for last year was 9309 kWh, 2024 was 9655 kWh, 2023 was 9011 kWh. Most of this would of been heating as we use air fryers and slow cooker...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[@jamespa many thanks for your thoughts, my gas usage for last year was 9309 kWh, 2024 was 9655 kWh, 2023 was 9011 kWh. Most of this would of been heating as we use air fryers and slow cookers a fair amount.]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/"></category>                        <dc:creator>Ian S</dc:creator>
                        <guid isPermaLink="true">https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/starting-our-heat-pump-journey/paged/2/#post-66086</guid>
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                        <title>RE: Starting Our Heat Pump Journey: 1962 build 3 bed detached house</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/starting-our-heat-pump-journey/paged/2/#post-66085</link>
                        <pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2026 20:27:48 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[49 is quite high, I would prefer 45, but if they are guaranteeing scop it doesn&#039;t really matter, and anyway it will in practice be what it will be, dependent only on your radiators and actua...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[
<p>The flow temperature would be 49°C which to me seems a little high so would be interested in people’s opinions.</p>
<p></p>
<p>49 is quite high, I would prefer 45, but if they are guaranteeing scop it doesn't really matter, and anyway it will in practice be what it will be, dependent only on your radiators and actual, as opposed to calculated house loss.  Furthermore the evidence from heat pump monitor is that, while ft definitely matters as thermodynamics says it does, operation (including not oversizing) and installation dominate actual performance.  If, nevertheless, you want it lower, just change some more radiators!</p>
<p>It's interesting that they are offering either the 5 or the 7kW.  Vaillant heat pumps tend to have 'sticker' capacities lower than actual in many circumstances, however it might also suggest that they <em>think</em> the calculated loss may be higher than the actual, but can't prove it within MCS rules.  They could well be right.  If you have previous fuel consumption then you can get a steer from that.  Did you ever tell us that figure?</p>
<p>In the end 5 or 7 probably won't make a vast difference so long as it doesn't turn out to be undersized.  You could probably get them to guarantee that if the one they are recommending is undersized, they will replace it.   However first I would compare with existing consumption. </p>
<p>Basically I think you are pretty much there as much as the inevitable uncertainty in determining loss (other than by actual measurement) allows, with the one caveat of doing the sense check against consumption.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/"></category>                        <dc:creator>JamesPa</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Starting Our Heat Pump Journey: 1962 build 3 bed detached house</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/starting-our-heat-pump-journey/paged/2/#post-66084</link>
                        <pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2026 20:07:44 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[Hi all
Many thanks for your input, it is very appreciated.
Heat Geek have been round and worked out our heat loss as 6.5kW which tied in with Aria, what I found interesting is the recommen...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi all</p>
<p>Many thanks for your input, it is very appreciated.</p>
<p>Heat Geek have been round and worked out our heat loss as 6.5kW which tied in with Aria, what I found interesting is the recommended heat pump is a 5kW Vaillant aroTHERM plus (Anthracite) which I could swap for a 7kW Vaillant aroTHERM pro (Anthracite) for £5 extra. The installer said the 5kW was more than capable of doing the job and it was the premium heat pump offering. Aria quoted a 6kW heat pump.</p>
<p>We would upgrade our cylinder, currently have a 180L slimline to the Vaillant uniSTOR PURE 175L Slim. If we kept our current rads the guaranteed efficiency would be 365% we could change 2 rads from type 11 to type 22 for 375% change another 2 from type 21 to type 22 for 380%.</p>
<p>The flow temperature would be 49°C which to me seems a little high so would be interested in people’s opinions.</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/"></category>                        <dc:creator>Ian S</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Heat Pump Books For Beginners: The Ultimate Guide to Heat Pumps, Bodge Buster, From Zero To Heat Pump Hero &amp; Britain&#039;s Heat Pump Shitshow</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/bodge-buster/paged/6/#post-66083</link>
                        <pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2026 19:54:16 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[All of the things you say the industry could do are fair, but it won&#039;t unless there is either government or commercial pressure.  I can&#039;t see a commercial pressure to change at present, if a...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All of the things you say the industry <em>could</em> do are fair, but it won't unless there is either government or commercial pressure.  I can't see a <em>commercial</em> pressure to change at present, if anything the opposite, the current approach protects installers rather well so far as can be ascertained from what we see here.  Of course if people stopped buying from the scammers and incompetents there <em>would</em> be commercial pressure.</p>
<p>I think the education thing is worthy of serious debate.  In most fields of consumer choice we <em>expect</em> to encounter a range of product quality from almost useless to excellent in all respects.  Consumers educate themselves by reading reviews (for which there is a while industry), talking to others and developing an understanding.  This applies to the most technically complex consumables such as cars and computers.</p>
<p>Yet somehow we think that construction projects are different.  Consumers apparently don't need to know or understand anything, not even something simple like how many showers they want in quick succession .  Why is that the case when it isn't in other fields?</p>
<p>I grant you that In the ideal world every product should be fully fit for purpose, but we live in a world run by humans, some of whom are frankly crooks.  That isn't going to change, ever.  So perhaps we need to get off our high horses and accept the world for what it is, imperfect.  All the changes that you (and I) say the industry could make are very fair, but why are they going to bother(and, frankly, do the people 'in charge' have the intellectual capacity to bother, or are the very best people just running their own businesses despite the industry bodies rather than because of them?)</p>
<p>The dodgy bits of the construction industry (just like the dodgy bits of, say, the finance industry) relies on consumer ignorance and wrapping everything in technical mumbo jumbo.  We facilitate that by supporting the argument that consumers 'shouldn't' have to enquire. Maybe, just maybe, consumers <em>should</em> enquire to the same extent as they would if buying a car or a computer.  This doesn't mean try get have to be able to design either, they just have to know the right questions to ask and how to interpret the answers!</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/"></category>                        <dc:creator>JamesPa</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Heat Pump Books For Beginners: The Ultimate Guide to Heat Pumps, Bodge Buster, From Zero To Heat Pump Hero &amp; Britain&#039;s Heat Pump Shitshow</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/bodge-buster/paged/6/#post-66082</link>
                        <pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2026 19:37:27 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[@jamespa there&#039;s no need to delete this. You’re discussing the political context surrounding renewables, not campaigning for a particular party, and I think the distinction is obvious.I unde...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[@jamespa there's no need to delete this. You’re discussing the political context surrounding renewables, not campaigning for a particular party, and I think the distinction is obvious.<br /><br />I understand why you’ve reduced the situation to those choices, although I’m not convinced it is quite as binary. The government of the day clearly influences the direction, funding and pace of the transition, but the industry does not need to wait for another election before behaving better. Certification bodies can improve oversight. Consumer codes can stop passing complaints around. Manufacturers can police their approved-installer networks. Grant administrators can examine outcomes rather than counting redeemed vouchers. Installers can peer-review designs, guarantee performance and stop protecting dreadful work through professional silence. None of that requires a change of government. It requires the organisations already holding authority to use it. I've covered all these things in the book.<br /><br />Consumer education is essential, 100%, and it is a huge part of what we try to provide here, but it cannot become the principal safety system for a complex installation costing £10,000 to £20,000 and supported by thousands of pounds of public money. We should help homeowners ask better questions, recognise warning signs and understand what they are buying, but we should not expect them to become heating designers, hydronics specialists, contract lawyers and complaints administrators simply because the professional protections failed. "Educating the customer" is IMO too easily turned into professional failure repackaged as consumer homework.<br /><br />There is also a third route between education and party politics... evidence, scrutiny and sustained pressure. Publishing poor outcomes, exposing broken complaint processes, challenging misleading claims and refusing to let certified failures disappear into closed files can force change long before legislation catches up. That pressure can come from homeowners, competent installers, forums like ours, journalists, manufacturers and, occasionally, a profane little book.<br /><br />Political leadership will undoubtedly shape the future of renewables. But a warm house, competent design and functioning consumer protection should not depend on how somebody voted. I do not think that those are not ideological luxuries. They are the bare minimum the industry should already be delivering. And frankly, I'm fed up with the inaction.]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/"></category>                        <dc:creator>Mars</dc:creator>
                        <guid isPermaLink="true">https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/bodge-buster/paged/6/#post-66082</guid>
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                        <title>RE: Heat Pump Books For Beginners: The Ultimate Guide to Heat Pumps, Bodge Buster, From Zero To Heat Pump Hero &amp; Britain&#039;s Heat Pump Shitshow</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/bodge-buster/paged/6/#post-66081</link>
                        <pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2026 19:26:26 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[For me the whole situation now reduces to:
The industry won&#039;t change unless forced to by government, and possibly not even then.  This takes time, certainly more than 3 years.
Consumer edu...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For me the whole situation now reduces to:</p>
<p>The industry won't change unless forced to by government, and possibly not even then.  This takes time, certainly more than 3 years.</p>
<p>Consumer education and consumer protection are the only ways to improve things in the absence of forced change.</p>
<p>The future of consumer protection in the renewables sector is dependent on only one thing, namely which party is in power after the next election (because anything the current government changes will take the rest of the current term to implement, and a government hostile to renewables will help inevitably find ways to frustrate it.)</p>
<p>The future of renewables more generally depends on only one thing, namely which party is in power after the next election.</p>
<p>Thus consumer education is the only non- political thing we can do which changes things.  </p>
<p>In our increasingly polarised discourse it's now as simple as that for me, and everything is filtered through that lens.  Either educate people (or not depending on outlook) or campaign, directly or indirectly, for a party that embraces your chosen approach to renewables.</p>
<p>Moderators please feel free to delete this post if you feel it violates forum rules.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/"></category>                        <dc:creator>JamesPa</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: &#039;Chinese Diesel Heater&#039; to heat the home .....</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/unusual-heating-alteratives/chinese-diesel-heater-to-heat-the-home/#post-66080</link>
                        <pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2026 16:23:13 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[Old thread but I&#039;m new to the forum so new to me.
How has it worked out for you.
I bought one for my small workshop a few years back. I ran a line directly to the heating oil tank outside....]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Old thread but I'm new to the forum so new to me.</p>
<p>How has it worked out for you.</p>
<p>I bought one for my small workshop a few years back. I ran a line directly to the heating oil tank outside. The workshop is draughty but it took the chill off.</p>
<p>I was advised to run it from a battery or at least have a battery connected with enough power to let it shut down properly.</p>
<p>As a power cut can result in a fried heater.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/"></category>                        <dc:creator>BlizzardGreen</dc:creator>
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