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									Inverter control of power from batteries - Energy Storage				            </title>
            <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/energy-storage/inverter-control-of-power-from-batteries/</link>
            <description>Questions and discussions about renewable heating and heat pumps</description>
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                        <title>RE: Inverter control of power from batteries</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/energy-storage/inverter-control-of-power-from-batteries/paged/5/#post-37416</link>
                        <pubDate>Wed, 13 Nov 2024 09:39:35 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve discussed the issue with LED chip manufacturers.
They point to the fact that LED wafers have lower temperature tolerances than silicon chips.Ie LEDs should run &#039;cold&#039;.
Within LED bulb...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p></p>
<p>My understanding is that in the commercial luminaires Leds are often overrun</p>
<p></p>
<p>I've discussed the issue with LED chip manufacturers.</p>
<p>They point to the fact that LED wafers have lower temperature tolerances than silicon chips.<br />Ie LEDs should run 'cold'.</p>
Within LED bulbs the heat comes from the electronics behind the LED emitters.<br />Due to tight price margins, bulb manufacturers use less-efficient circuitry to -<br />
<ul>
<li>convert from AC mains to low-voltage DC</li>
<li>deliver a constant <span style="text-decoration: underline">current</span> through the emitters (LEDs don't use constant voltage)</li>
</ul>
<p> </p>
<p>Too often, the bulb manufacturers use the same aluminium body to act as a heat-sink for both the emitter elements and the electronics.</p>
<p>You can buy some LED bulbs that use higher efficiency electronics, such as <a href="https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Manufacturers/LEDlite/MR16_Led/index.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener">these GU10 LEDlite</a> ones from TLC.</p>
9018
<p><br />But to evaluate the efficiency the customer needs to compare the input watts against the output brightness in lumens.<br />Anything greater than 100-lumens per watt is worth considering.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Remember also that <strong>white-light LED</strong>s use a phosphor to create the wide spectrum.<br />That deteriorates over time, for which manufacturers' specifications have a L-code.</p>
<p>A white light source marked L70 means that the luminous intensity drops to 70% of the specified value within however many years they state (typically 5 years).</p>
<p>Any manufacturer quoting an L90 specification is therefore telling you that there is a lower decrease in illumination over time for his product.<br />Typically these bulbs will be using emitters made by the likes of Cree or Epistar, who are the world leaders in this phosphor technology.</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/energy-storage/">Energy Storage</category>                        <dc:creator>Transparent</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Inverter control of power from batteries</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/energy-storage/inverter-control-of-power-from-batteries/paged/5/#post-37400</link>
                        <pubDate>Tue, 12 Nov 2024 19:38:20 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[@transparent Thanks again for the useful information. So much food for thought. Last nights Panorama made me think it would be best to leave smart meters until the communication problems are...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[@transparent Thanks again for the useful information. So much food for thought. Last nights Panorama made me think it would be best to leave smart meters until the communication problems are resolved. This rather simplifies my plans for battery backup systems as the more sophisticated setups require smart meters to take advantage of smart tariffs.]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/energy-storage/">Energy Storage</category>                        <dc:creator>Homonid</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Inverter control of power from batteries</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/energy-storage/inverter-control-of-power-from-batteries/paged/5/#post-37399</link>
                        <pubDate>Tue, 12 Nov 2024 19:14:24 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[@judith My understanding is that in the commercial luminaires Leds are often overrun (source is Big Clive videos) so they burn out more quickly though I also take @transparents point that th...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[@judith My understanding is that in the commercial luminaires Leds are often overrun (source is Big Clive videos) so they burn out more quickly though I also take @transparents point that the circuit boards are in tiny spaces and overheat and die. Having said that my mains led bulbs are lasting far better now but they are not Gu10. The first low voltage ones I had in my boat years ago were rubbish dying after only a few hours. I am no electronic expert just a hobbyist.]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/energy-storage/">Energy Storage</category>                        <dc:creator>Jancold</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Inverter control of power from batteries</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/energy-storage/inverter-control-of-power-from-batteries/paged/5/#post-37377</link>
                        <pubDate>Tue, 12 Nov 2024 12:38:58 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[There was a post here from @homonid  about LED lighting which got &#039;lost&#039; in the ether when posts about Smart Meter issues were relocated here. &#x1f625; 
Fortunately it&#039;s still fresh in my ...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There was a post here from @homonid  about LED lighting which got 'lost' in the ether when <a href="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/electricity-providers/smart-meter-connectivity-and-features" target="_blank" rel="noopener">posts about Smart Meter issues were relocated here</a>. &#x1f625; </p>
<p>Fortunately it's still fresh in my mind, so I can answer both points!</p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong>1:</strong> I recommended installing <strong>24v DC</strong> LED lighting (<span style="text-decoration: underline">not 12v</span>).<br />For the same power output, the wiring will be half as thick when using 24v, which saves needless expense on copper.</p>
<p>To obtain 24v from a storage battery I use DC-DC converters like this:</p>
9009
<p>This steps down from a nominal 48-60v to 24v DC</p>
<p>A typical 20-Amp unit will cost about £30 from Amazon UK, and will probably be enough to supply all lighting in the home.<br />However, I prefer to buy direct from <a href="https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006501805423.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener">a reputable seller on AliExpress</a>.</p>
<p><em><span style="color: #008000">Ask if you need help to buy direct from China.</span></em><br /><em><span style="color: #008000">AliExpress has thousands of 'stores' but you can usually identify the better ones by the number of that product which they've sold.</span></em><br /><em><span style="color: #008000">Their reputation on AliExpress is important to them, whereas anyone can set up a store on Amazon and you don't really know who they are.</span></em></p>
<p>I use multiple DC-DC converters and have 24v power outputs around the home.</p>
9010
<p>The assembly in this photo delivers <strong>12v</strong> which runs</p>
<ul>
<li>broadband router</li>
<li>WiFi remote Access Point</li>
<li>external door entry lock</li>
<li>alarm system</li>
</ul>
<p> </p>
<p>The <strong>19v</strong> DC-DC converter supplies a monitor.<br />It used to do my (older) laptop, but my current one uses a USB Fast-charger input (USB Power Delivery system).</p>
<p>I also use the 'raw' <strong>52v</strong> from the storage battery to an Ethernet Switch and a CCTV system, both of which have PoE (Power over Ethernet)</p>
<p>If there's a power outage to the house, then I wouldn't notice it.</p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong>2:</strong> If you're considering an <strong>'interim' inverter</strong> prior to building a whole-house 'off-grid' battery storage at some later date, then I would still suggest that you consider <a href="https://www.sunsynk.org/5kw-hybrid-inverter" target="_blank" rel="noopener">a SunSynk inverter</a>.</p>
<p>I don't (yet) have any here, but I have gained lots of insight into which companies provide inverters that are properly designed.<br />They key point is that they need to offer features which the householder would actually find useful!<br />That includes inputs from solar <span style="text-decoration: underline">and</span> grid to charge a battery, and the ability to operate in parallel with either single-phase or 3-phase configurations.</p>
<p>At some point, I would hope that the British company, <a href="https://givenergy.co.uk/products/hybrid-inverter/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">GivEnergy</a>, are also able to deliver a well-designed hybrid inverter.<br />But they are currently concentrating on the software changes required to get their All-in-One (combined inverter/battery) units operating as they should.</p>
<p> </p>
<p><span style="color: #008080"><em>(I think we've also lost a post here from @judith  which was a comment on ELV (24v) LED lighting.</em></span><br /><span style="color: #008080"><em>But I don't recall it being a question which needed an answer)</em></span></p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/energy-storage/">Energy Storage</category>                        <dc:creator>Transparent</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Inverter control of power from batteries</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/energy-storage/inverter-control-of-power-from-batteries/paged/5/#post-37319</link>
                        <pubDate>Mon, 11 Nov 2024 10:17:08 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[In @homonid&#039;&#039;s case the wiring can be right first time because it&#039;s a renovation project.
But it&#039;s also possible to use existing 1½mm² lighting cabling to deliver 24v power to dedicated LED...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In @homonid''s case the wiring can be right first time because it's a renovation project.</p>
<p>But it's also possible to use existing 1½mm² lighting cabling to deliver 24v power to dedicated LED fittings without lifting floorboards!</p>
<p>Obviously, you need to completely remove the relevant wires from the mains MCB in the consumer unit before doing anything else! &#x1f62f; </p>
<p>Personally I don't like downlighters recessed into a ceiling.<br />They create shadows and you also end up with a 'dark ceiling'.<br />A matt white ceiling should be used as a significant asset when considering the illumination of the whole room.</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/energy-storage/">Energy Storage</category>                        <dc:creator>Transparent</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Inverter control of power from batteries</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/energy-storage/inverter-control-of-power-from-batteries/paged/4/#post-37316</link>
                        <pubDate>Mon, 11 Nov 2024 10:02:09 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[@homonid we went the simple route when refurbishing the house 15years ago in using mains LED lights (in down lighters) and compact fluorescents elsewhere.We’ve changed to all LED since. But ...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@homonid we went the simple route when refurbishing the house 15years ago in using mains LED lights (in down lighters) and compact fluorescents elsewhere.<br />We’ve changed to all LED since. But yes failures are irritating. It’s not the actual light emitting chips that die but the very cheap control electronics which is a real waste. So using DC means simpler electronics and they should last longer. <br />Of our first batch of 10 GU4s 3 died in the first 4 months and the rest lasted well over 2 years thus satisfying Philips’ claim of 1 year life which is always the average of a population. This was much better than the halogens they replaced.</p>
<p>If we re-wired again we might choose to go DC in some rooms but no plans at all.</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/energy-storage/">Energy Storage</category>                        <dc:creator>Judith</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Inverter control of power from batteries</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/energy-storage/inverter-control-of-power-from-batteries/paged/4/#post-37314</link>
                        <pubDate>Mon, 11 Nov 2024 09:59:45 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[@homonid - if you&#039;d like me to advise of running wiring for DC lighting then let&#039;s put that in a new topic.
I can provide you with lists of suppliers and photos of what I&#039;ve successfully im...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@homonid - if you'd like me to advise of running wiring for DC lighting then let's put that in a new topic.</p>
<p>I can provide you with lists of suppliers and photos of what I've successfully implemented.</p>
<p>Note, in particular, that you won't require an electrician for this.<br />Anything you install below 75v doesn't need Part-P certification.</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/energy-storage/">Energy Storage</category>                        <dc:creator>Transparent</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Inverter control of power from batteries</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/energy-storage/inverter-control-of-power-from-batteries/paged/4/#post-37313</link>
                        <pubDate>Mon, 11 Nov 2024 09:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[Yes, I&#039;d seen that trailer for tonight&#039;s Panoroma @ianmk13  and I&#039;m sure it will be of interest to @homonid too
 
Comments here about Smart Meters and the Panorama programme have now been ...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I'd seen that trailer for tonight's Panoroma @ianmk13  and I'm sure it will be of interest to @homonid too</p>
<p> </p>
<p><span style="color: #800000"><strong>Comments here about Smart Meters and the Panorama programme have now been moved to a <a style="color: #800000" href="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/electricity-providers/smart-meter-connectivity-and-features" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><span style="text-decoration: underline">new topic on Smart Meter connectivity and features</span></a>.</strong></span></p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/energy-storage/">Energy Storage</category>                        <dc:creator>Transparent</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Inverter control of power from batteries</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/energy-storage/inverter-control-of-power-from-batteries/paged/4/#post-37309</link>
                        <pubDate>Mon, 11 Nov 2024 08:25:42 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[@transparent   I know you’ve posted on the forums on several occasions about the north/south divide regarding smart meters. It’s now becoming a news item:
It’s interesting to read that Octo...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@transparent   I know you’ve posted on the forums on several occasions about the north/south divide regarding smart meters. It’s now becoming a news item:</p>
<p>https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq52382zd1no</p>
<p>It’s interesting to read that Octopus appear to be prepared to break the rules. </p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/energy-storage/">Energy Storage</category>                        <dc:creator>IanMK13</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Inverter control of power from batteries</title>
                        <link>https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/energy-storage/inverter-control-of-power-from-batteries/paged/4/#post-37304</link>
                        <pubDate>Sun, 10 Nov 2024 18:55:03 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[That is an interesting thought, low voltage LED lighting. I have been disappointed by the short life of LED bulbs. The old filament bulbs could last for a decade or more, but already a numbe...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is an interesting thought, low voltage LED lighting. I have been disappointed by the short life of LED bulbs. The old filament bulbs could last for a decade or more, but already a number of my LED bulbs have started flickering to the point of being a nuisance after only 18 or 24 months! They are not cheap.</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/energy-storage/">Energy Storage</category>                        <dc:creator>Homonid</dc:creator>
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